How to Dock with a target that you can not control?

[littlelio]

Hi, new to here and this is a fantastic game! I am going through the tutorials and Docking is most challenging to me!

Now I can encounter then match velocity with the target ship. However I still have a major problem with finally docking with it. I checked here and did find lots of useful resources. HOWEVER, they all assume that you can switch to the target ship, and turn it towards to the rescue ship.

I am doing the training session of KSP. The docking training has a target ship which you can switch to (e.g. by pressing [ or ] ), BUT you can NOT turn it. It seems the RCS is broken.

So my question is, how to dock with a target you can not control? The target ship is spinning around (even it is slow), and there is no way to follow it. To me it is impossible to use RCS jetting around to catch that spinning docking port...

Any comment is highly appreciated. Thanks a lot!

[Rfmeijboom]

The spinning is the only thing that makes it a bit more difficult.

First you should learn to dock with another stationary vessel without switching to it.

The way I do it:

- Match alignment with the target

- switch to locked camera view

- move the camera so you look at the back of your ship.

- Use RCS translation until you are aligned with the docking port.

- cancel relative velocity and move forwards.

I build my entire space station without ever switching to the station to align the craft.

Once you get the hang of docking like this, you can do the same with a spinning target.

Align yourself with the plane of rotation of the target (so the docking port will pass in front of your vessel in every rotation.

Then aproach to within a few meters and when the docking port is almost aligned move forwards a bit.

There probably are better ways to do it, but this is what I do and I know it works.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Rfmeijboom

[Guest]

If the RCS is broken, what about SAS? If there is still electric charge aboard, you should be able to stabilize it. And if there is no EC, try to EVA a Kerbal from the rescue ship and unfold eventual solar panels by hand to gain some. If there is really no control authority aboard the other ship, I´d say it´s near to impossible (I tried this myself multiple times with a interplanetary mothership, and I failed terrible).

[MarvinKitFox]

... The target ship is spinning around (even it is slow), and there is no way to follow it. To me it is impossible to use RCS jetting around to catch that spinning docking port...

Ok class, now chant the magic spell with me. Be very careful to get the incantation right. Be extra sure you are not using the ALT-key when chanting.

All together now, say "><"

(those of you of unshifted bloodlines may want to use the variant ".," )

And see the wonders of Magic. By a single short enchantment, you have frozen all rotation in the universe!

Edited June 5, 2015 by MarvinKitFox

[Rfmeijboom]

Ok class, now chant the magic spell with me. Be very careful to get the incantation right. Be extra sure you are using the ALT-key when chanting.

All together now, say "><"

(those of you of unshifted bloodlines may want to use the variant ".," )

And see the wonders of Magic. By a single short enchantment, you have frozen all rotation in the universe!

NO! You got the incantation wrong.

You should NOT be using the ALT-key during the chant.

Holding ALT with this incantation has the potential to rip large ships and stations to pieces.

Edit: also this is dark magic, stay well away from it if you value your soul

Edited June 5, 2015 by Rfmeijboom

[MarvinKitFox]

NO! You got the incantation wrong.

You should NOT be using the ALT-key during the chant.

Holding ALT with this incantation has the potential to rip large ships and stations to pieces.

You should not read so fast, i fixed it within 20 seconds.. hasty people, you will be the death of me.

[tbob]

First, if you haven't seen 2001: A Space Odyssey stop now and go rent it. Yes it's old and slow, but still amazing.

Ok, now you've seen the space station docking scene?

Imagine using The Claw... It lets you form a docking attachment with a target wherever it happens to connect.

Match velocities so your ship is centered "over" the axis of rotation of the other ship - you can view your ship from behind and see the other one turning clockwise (or anti) and your ship is directly opposite the point that it's turning around. Point your Claw towards that point and arm the Claw (and "control from here" on the Claw). F5 for safety, if you do that sort of thing. Turn off SAS or whatever mod may be stabilizing you and move in at 1 to 2 m/s while matching rotation (Q and E) with the target. Hum the Blue Danube Waltz...

Boom, you dock and as an extra bonus, if you hit the center your ship's thrust is aligned through the target's center of mass, so you can maneuver. Just make sure the target has no active thrusters as your controls will throttle all the active engines at once.

[littlelio]

If the RCS is broken, what about SAS? If there is still electric charge aboard, you should be able to stabilize it. And if there is no EC, try to EVA a Kerbal from the rescue ship and unfold eventual solar panels by hand to gain some. If there is really no control authority aboard the other ship, I´d say it´s near to impossible (I tried this myself multiple times with a interplanetary mothership, and I failed terrible).

I was just doing the training part of the game, the docking. I can switch SAS on and off, but can not see obvious different... If I can make the target ship behave better, of course it makes my life easier...

But it is a training for beginner, it should not be that hard right?

[vixr]

does the target ship have a Kerbal in it? you may need to EVA to it, take control, and stop the rotation?

[DBT85]

I was just doing the training part of the game, the docking. I can switch SAS on and off, but can not see obvious different... If I can make the target ship behave better, of course it makes my life easier...

But it is a training for beginner, it should not be that hard right?

Sadly, and in my opinion, the training for docking provided in the game at this time is not nearly as good as it should be. Should be a small nimble probe ship with RCS that is easy to play with, not an unbalanced hulk as you are finding. There should also be a better alignment indicator.

All the videos I find on YouTube are of peoples own custom machines docking rather than this one sadly.

Off the top of my head I can't remember all the details of the vessels you are trying to dock in this tutorial, but just switching between them with [] wont give you any control if it needs a pilot. You'd have to EVA over, board, stabilise the other craft and then go back.

Have to started playing with anything else in the game or are you still just going through the tutorials?

The best advice I can always give is start a career on easy and watch Scott Manley videos on YouTube. He's just started a new series for 1.0.

[A_name]

Basically what the other said. Use a tiny bit of time warp to stop the rotation. Is this cheating? I dunno, you tell me.

Otherwise,

.

[littlelio]

Sadly, and in my opinion, the training for docking provided in the game at this time is not nearly as good as it should be. Should be a small nimble probe ship with RCS that is easy to play with, not an unbalanced hulk as you are finding. There should also be a better alignment indicator.

All the videos I find on YouTube are of peoples own custom machines docking rather than this one sadly.

Off the top of my head I can't remember all the details of the vessels you are trying to dock in this tutorial, but just switching between them with [] wont give you any control if it needs a pilot. You'd have to EVA over, board, stabilise the other craft and then go back.

Have to started playing with anything else in the game or are you still just going through the tutorials?

The best advice I can always give is start a career on easy and watch Scott Manley videos on YouTube. He's just started a new series for 1.0.

As I can remember there are pilots inside but not sure. I will check again. I pressed T the SAS can be on and off, but no stabilization effect.

Now I am doing science work, perhaps I should get in easy career?

And I did watch Scott Manley's tutorial, which is very good! But he also stablize the target ship first.

Anyway, thanks! It seems the unbalanced ship IS a headache! I will keep learning!

But how the time warp works...? If it gets slower, I should be in slow motion as well? Well, let me try first.,,

It is a very good community! Thanks!

[DancesWithSquirrels]

EVA over and kick it a few times to slow the spin - which I had to do once when I found that I hadn't included RCS or for that matter reaction wheels on what became the target.

Edit: Note to self - command chairs do not have reaction wheels built into the seat cushions...

Edited June 5, 2015 by DancesWithSquirrels

[littlelio]

Update: I loaded the quick save of Docking tutorial, and this time the target ship doesn't spin anymore... There are three Kerbins in side, but the SAS and RCS don't work. So I fine tweak the rescue ship direction, then finally, docked with the target!

So it is my first time to dock with a target without control it, it is a bit more difficult than adjust the target, but possible and, fun (time consuming...)

[DBT85]

Congratulations! Docking is always satisfying and it does get easier when you've done it a few times.

I also use the Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod to get lined up properly.