Switching Symmetry in SPH (or more, keeping it from switching)

[Sharpy]

The symmetry tool in SPH drives me to tears, randomly switching between mirror symmetry and radial. Already had an extra set of wheels on top of my wings, my four engines placed on three pylons (one including two clipped over as symmetry tool decided to mirror the top pylons but apply axial to the bottom one, linking it with the top one on the other side), asymmetric engine placement (instead of (a)(b)o((a) I got (a)(b)o(a)( as the other bicoupler got copied but not mirrored), all kinds of woes.

Oh, and if I have two engines mounted as "mirrored", I'm supposed to attach an action group to them as a pair; I can't attach action groups to them individually. That would be fine, except it works only in SPH. During flight, I'm finding the action group toggles engines on one side of the plane, the other half keeps running.

Is there some method to get the symmetry tool in check and make it behave one way or another but not switch between them at will?

Or should I give up and build everything from scratch without using the symmetry tool?

Edited June 17, 2015 by Sharpy

[ElWanderer]

Yeah, as you mouse over placed parts it likes to pick up their symmetry. I understand the frustration.

You should be able to tame it by hitting the R key to toggle between radial and mirror symmetry just before placing the part. There's also F for switching between symmetry around vessel and symmetry around part, but I've not got to work last time I tried. Lastly X and shift-X toggle through/back through the number of symmetry.

[Sharpy]

I guess it may have been stray presses of 'r' when desperately hunting for the right axis of rotation with QWEASD

[B-STRK]

The symmetry tool in SPH drives me to tears, randomly switching between mirror symmetry and radial. Already had an extra set of wheels on top of my wings, my four engines placed on three pylons (one including two clipped over as symmetry tool decided to mirror the top pylons but apply axial to the bottom one, linking it with the top one on the other side), asymmetric engine placement (instead of (a)(b)o((a) I got (a)(b)o(a)( as the other bicoupler got copied but not mirrored), all kinds of woes.

Oh, and if I have two engines mounted as "mirrored", I'm supposed to attach an action group to them as a pair; I can't attach action groups to them individually. That would be fine, except it works only in SPH. During flight, I'm finding the action group toggles engines on one side of the plane, the other half keeps running.

Is there some method to get the symmetry tool in check and make it behave one way or another but not switch between them at will?

Or should I give up and build everything from scratch without using the symmetry tool?

To add to ElWanderer: one thing I've noticed when using symmetry is that, if you're attaching parts to parts already installed with a given symmetry (radial/mirror), then the new parts being attached will take no symmetry but the symmetry of its parent part--I've tried forcing a different symmetry of a child of a child, trust me. It won't give. Maybe that's why you're getting the behavior you're getting.

So, for example, if I attach two tanks radially to a fuselage, then the fuel line attachments I try to feed from those tanks to the main fuselage will be radial, never mirror. (I haven't tried going the other way around; it might force the symmetry or keep the parent symmetry--or if the parent is the root, then take any symmetry...).

As for action group misbehaviors with symmetry, I believe I've read somewhere (and it's kinda my experience with the game, too), if after you've placed an action group on a symmetrical part, you then try to move the symmetrical part, it's advised to redo the action group for it. [thread=97285]There's a stock bugfix for it, but there's also a disclaimer about it causing a bit of misbehavior as well, so its caveat emptor whether to use it or not, really[/thread].

Best tip I could probably offer so far: plan out the symmetry on the craft you're building so that each part "branch" maintains only one symmetry. If you want to force a subbranch that's placed symmetrical to a different symmetry than its parent (s), you could try building it separately as a subassembly, OR by mounting it as a single part to a free node (make the connection point the point you plan to connect it by to its parent), build the subbranch there, then pick up the subassembly and remount it to its parent in the parent's symmetry; the subassembly is (hopefully!) mirrored/radialed as it is originally constructed. And, if you're not averse to mods, get StripSymmetry, in case you really need to tell the symmetry tool to behave.

[Sharpy]

I found a way to strip symmetry without a mod. All you need is to set the symmetrical part as root. (then you can reset the root back to wherever it was). You may need to set the one directly attached to the non-symetric "core" part, e.g. 4 sets of fuel tanks with nose cones and engines attached by radial decouplers to the main rocket - it's one (any) of the decouplers that needs to be set as root.