Newbie question about transmitting science data.

[Tricky14]

Doing the same science experiment in the same location multiple times results in less science points each time. How does that work for science that is transmitted? Transmitted science is worth less. On top of that, if I look at some mystery goo, transmit the data, reset the experiment, look at it again and bring it back home, do I get less science points for what I've brought back because it is technically the second time I do the science experiment?

In other words, in order to mine the most science out of one location, it is perhaps better not to transmit any data, but to ensure I bring all my scientific experiments back home in one piece each time?

[Reactordrone]

It's generally a good idea to transmit and then run the experiment a second time and bring that back since there's no penalty for transmitting but there is a maximum amount of science that can be gained for each experiment and hitting a biome twice usually gets the majority of it.

[carlorizzante]

Indeed this is a good question.

If I bring two Mystery Goos, and I transmit the data from both of them, will I get the same data that I would get if I would bring one single Mystery Goo in two subsequent missions? In fact the real question here is if I can compress the equivalent of two missions in just one, bringing twice the scientific material.

[Grumman]

There is a set amount of science available for each experiment-biome combination. Transmitting some of that science does not make it any harder to bring back the rest of it.

[Streetwind]

Doing the same science experiment in the same location multiple times results in less science points each time. How does that work for science that is transmitted? Transmitted science is worth less. On top of that, if I look at some mystery goo, transmit the data, reset the experiment, look at it again and bring it back home, do I get less science points for what I've brought back because it is technically the second time I do the science experiment?

In other words, in order to mine the most science out of one location, it is perhaps better not to transmit any data, but to ensure I bring all my scientific experiments back home in one piece each time?

I assume that what you really want to know is: "if this experiment is worth 100, can be transmitted for 30 and returned for 70, do I get the full 100 points for transmitting and recovering? If not, do I get more for not transmitting and instead recovering twice?"

For each science experiment, there exists a maximum value of science points you're allowed to get from it. You can never exceed the value no matter what you do.

For some experiments, like the thermometer, the value of one fully recovered experiment is equal to the maximum; in other words, recovering yields 100%. You can see that this is the case when the green bar is completely filled, and is one one uniformely light-green color.

For others, like the goo canister, you receive less than the maximum possible value from recovering it. In other words, recovering yields less than 100%. You can see that this is the case when the green bar has two different colors in it. The light green color is what you get for recovering this experiment now; the dark green color is how much remains to get after recovering it.

For the transmision option, it works the same. There is a light blue bar that indicates how much you get from transmitting this now, as well as a dark blue bar that shows how much is left to get after transmitting. However! there is an additional transmission science cap that can never be exceeded, much like there's a total science cap. Even if the experiment allows you to get 100 science, it's very likely that transmitting will not allow you to go past a fraction of that. At some point (often after one trasnmission) it simply stops giving points. I don't remember right now if stock KSP even has an experiment that can be transmitted multiple times for incrementally smaller yields... probably not. Technically it's possible but it makes little gameplay sense to have it. Also, recovering will deplete the transmission pool as well.

When you transmit an experiment, the science points that you get are subtracted from the maximum science cap. If your experiment is worth at most 100 points and you transmit for 50, then no matter what you do, you will never earn more than another 50 points from that experiment. In that scenario, it doesn't matter whether you would have gotten 100 points for recovering, or less than 100 points. The transmission gave you 50, so those 50 are removed from the allowed maximum.

However, if recovering does not give you 100% (of what's possible) of a 'virgin' experiment, then it doesn't give you 100% (of what remains) of a transmitted experiment either. In the above example, if the maximum value is 100 and recovering would give you 80, then transmitting first will reduce the maximum value to 50, and recovering is now worth 40. Not 50, not 80, but rather 80% of the maximum remaining allowed value. If you recover it, there will be 10 points left, and the next recovery nets you 8 points... and so on.

Maybe the following table helps illustrating how it works:

For an experiment with:
- max value 100
- recovery 80%
- max transmission value 50
- transmission 100%

                    earned     remaining value      remaining transmission value
unrecovered            0           100                           50
recovered once        80            20                            0
recovered twice       96             4                            0
recovered thrice      99.2           0.8                          0


                    earned     remaining value      remaining transmission value
unrecovered            0           100                           50
transmitted           50            50                            0
recovered once        90            10                            0
recovered twice       98             2                            0

recovered thrice      99.6           0.4                          0

So in this specific example, if you had three experiment copies with you, then not transmitting and recovering all three of them would give you (slightly) more than transmitting one and recovering the other two.

However, if the experiment does not become inoperable after transmitting, then transmitting once and recovering three times gives you (minimally) more still.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Streetwind

[Old Foxboy]

Srsly:

Fly to another biome or planet. It's really not worth recovering data twice, except if you get it for free while accidentally passing by. Better research the seismic and when available the gravimetric scans ASAP and harvest all biomes on Minimus or other low gravity bodies. Don't make excessive or repetitive goo or minilab experiments without a scientist to reset them.

You can fill the R&D tree rather quick with a handful of thoroughly crafted missions if you don't waste your time with "small numbers xperiments".

[Tricky14]

I assume that what you really want to know is: "if this experiment is worth 100, can be transmitted for 30 and returned for 70, do I get the full 100 points for transmitting and recovering? If not, do I get more for not transmitting and instead recovering twice?"

For each science experiment, there exists a maximum value of science points you're allowed to get from it. You can never exceed the value no matter what you do.

For some experiments, like the thermometer, the value of one fully recovered experiment is equal to the maximum; in other words, recovering yields 100%. You can see that this is the case when the green bar is completely filled, and is one one uniformely light-green color.

For others, like the goo canister, you receive less than the maximum possible value from recovering it. In other words, recovering yields less than 100%. You can see that this is the case when the green bar has two different colors in it. The light green color is what you get for recovering this experiment now; the dark green color is how much remains to get after recovering it.

For the transmision option, it works the same. There is a light blue bar that indicates how much you get from transmitting this now, as well as a dark blue bar that shows how much is left to get after transmitting. However! there is an additional transmission science cap that can never be exceeded, much like there's a total science cap. Even if the experiment allows you to get 100 science, it's very likely that transmitting will not allow you to go past a fraction of that. At some point (often after one trasnmission) it simply stops giving points. I don't remember right now if stock KSP even has an experiment that can be transmitted multiple times for incrementally smaller yields... probably not. Technically it's possible but it makes little gameplay sense to have it. Also, recovering will deplete the transmission pool as well.

When you transmit an experiment, the science points that you get are subtracted from the maximum science cap. If your experiment is worth at most 100 points and you transmit for 50, then no matter what you do, you will never earn more than another 50 points from that experiment. In that scenario, it doesn't matter whether you would have gotten 100 points for recovering, or less than 100 points. The transmission gave you 50, so those 50 are removed from the allowed maximum.

However, if recovering does not give you 100% (of what's possible) of a 'virgin' experiment, then it doesn't give you 100% (of what remains) of a transmitted experiment either. In the above example, if the maximum value is 100 and recovering would give you 80, then transmitting first will reduce the maximum value to 50, and recovering is now worth 40. Not 50, not 80, but rather 80% of the maximum remaining allowed value. If you recover it, there will be 10 points left, and the next recovery nets you 8 points... and so on.

Maybe the following table helps illustrating how it works:

For an experiment with:
- max value 100
- recovery 80%
- max transmission value 50
- transmission 100%

                    earned     remaining value      remaining transmission value
unrecovered            0           100                           50
recovered once        80            20                            0
recovered twice       96             4                            0
recovered thrice      99.2           0.8                          0


                    earned     remaining value      remaining transmission value
unrecovered            0           100                           50
transmitted           50            50                            0
recovered once        90            10                            0
recovered twice       98             2                            0

recovered thrice      99.6           0.4                          0

So in this specific example, if you had three experiment copies with you, then not transmitting and recovering all three of them would give you (slightly) more than transmitting one and recovering the other two.

However, if the experiment does not become inoperable after transmitting, then transmitting once and recovering three times gives you (minimally) more still.

Hm, I think I'm going to need to perform some science on this post. Thanks for writing it.