The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]

[Halsfury]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/20451-1-0-4-Ferram-Aerospace-Research-v0-15-4-Glauert-7-12-15?p=2075520&viewfull=1#post2075520

Time for reviews

Cool!

EDIT:

This makes basic jet entries much easier.

Also Darth, I shortened the rear fuselage of the hornet myself and it handles even better, I think before the length of the fuselage was too effective as a lever and was constantly causing stalls, now it tracks like an arrow

Edited July 13, 2015 by Halsfury

[Halsfury]

I know it could get to mach 5 if I just turned the thrust limiter off!

Nope...

Look at Jeb, only time he's ever been caught looking concerned...

[FourGreenFields]

Ok, after thick, high wing loading delta wings were found to cause ridiculous bleeding of E at high AoAs (or at least they did on the design I tried):

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Let's see if I can make this thing beat my previous score.

Can pull the required 6G with positive specific excess power, stable at all speeds I calculated at, much lighter than my previous design. And also much higher wave drag area But at least it doesn't bleed E like a slaughtered pig, while still having semi-decent hypersonic drag. Stall speed is around 70m/s, with very forgiving "stall" behaviour (= no stall, simply lack of elevator authority).

Obviously still being developed, so no nickname has been given yet.

EDIT: Ok, I think I'll call the thing "Peregrine". Kinda fits the wing shape. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Falco_peregrinus_-Morro_Rock,_Morro_Bay,_California,_USA_-flying-8.jpg

Edited July 13, 2015 by FourGreenFields

[CrisK]

I rebuilt the body of my Boeing X-32 to optimize the shape for the new version of FAR. I also took the opportunity to make the body better resemble a flying bathtub, just like the original.

I'm not sure how the scoring works, so some help there would be appreciated.

The armament is 4 AMRAAMs, 2 sidewinders, 2 hellfires. The radial tanks are currently empty; they can hold an additional 800 fuel. Super maneuverable. Top safe speed of Mach 3.5. Explodes instantly upon reaching mach 4 due to the exposed BDArmory missiles. It easily pulls 13G. Supercruise range is not great since it's a compact fighter - 10,000m/s of DeltaV flying normally, 21,000 with the radial tanks full (2 hours 2 minutes). The radial tanks carry 1120 liquid fuel.

It cannot sustain a straight upwards climb.

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Here's the craft file. Mods: BDArmory, B9 Wings, FAR, Kerbal Engineer for the readouts.

Bonus screenshot: all of the BDArmory missiles explode the instant it reaches Mach 4. R.I.P. Magmy.

Edited July 14, 2015 by CrisK
Added the craft file.

[Halsfury]

That's awesome crisk, that has to be the most convincing KSP creation ever.

[Hodo]

I cant agree more Halsfury.

Crisk has a absolute winner right there on his hands, that is one of the best looking aircraft in this challenge. The YF-17 being the other.

[FourGreenFields]

After the "Peregrine" proved to have overheating problems at lower speeds than the "Shrike" did, leading to lower top speed, I think I won't build anything else for this challenge unless someone beats my score.

[tetryds]

After the "Peregrine" proved to have overheating problems at lower speeds than the "Shrike" did, leading to lower top speed, I think I won't build anything else for this challenge unless someone beats my score.

Thanks for the reminder.

I did not even notice that, haha.

[CrisK]

I cant agree more Halsfury.

Crisk has a absolute winner right there on his hands, that is one of the best looking aircraft in this challenge. The YF-17 being the other.

That's awesome crisk, that has to be the most convincing KSP creation ever.

Thanks guys!

I added the craft file to the post.

[Darth Lazarus]

@ Halsfury: indeed, shorter fusellage looks better AND improves flightperformance... and yeah, a concernd Jeb is really concernd

so i testet a full load of missles and how fast it can go with supercruise after my arearulemagic ... i'm impressed... and full throttle is still awesome. And i did some hidden ducttapping inside the fusellage which helped a lot to make the jetfighter more stable. still, i can't fly it good enough to test it's full potential. And still it needs testing with fueltanks. Oh and i added an airbrake.

it has now 9 hardpoints: 1 under the belly, 6 under teh wings and two on the wingtips.

supercruise @ Mach 1.3+

full throttle @ Mach 4.0+ (unplaned rapid disassembly too ...)

so, staying under Mach 4 for hypercruising is save. as long as you don't touch your flightcontrolls.

downloads:

-> FAR F-18 Super Hornet (clean) <-

-> FAR F-18 Super Hornet (hardpoints only, with BDamory) <-

-> FAR F-18 Super Hornet (armed) <-

mods needed:

-> BDArmory <-

-> adjustable landinggear <-

and ofcourse FAR

your turn Halsfury

pictures:

Edited July 14, 2015 by Darth Lazarus

[CrisK]

@ Halsfury: indeed, shorter fusellage looks better AND improves flightperformance... and yeah, a concernd Jeb is really concernd

so i testet a full load of missles and how fast it can go with supercruise after my arearulemagic ... i'm impressed... and full throttle is still awesome. And i did some hidden ducttapping inside the fusellage which helped a lot to make the jetfighter more stable. still, i can't fly it good enough to test it's full potential. And still it needs testing with fueltanks. Oh and i added an airbrake.

it has now 9 hardpoints: 1 under the belly, 6 under teh wings and two on the wingtips.

supercruise @ Mach 1.3+

full throttle @ Mach 4.0+ (unplaned rapid disassembly too ...)

so, staying under Mach 4 for hypercruising is save. as long as you don't touch your flightcontrolls.

I really like this little guy. It makes me want to install the KerbinSide aircraft carrier so that I can launch F-18s off of it.

In other news, BahamutoD is back and he's updating BDArmory. His new laser targeting feature looks amazing.

Edited July 14, 2015 by CrisK

[Pds314]

Tried making a basic jet craft. The problem is, while it readily supercruises even at sea level, it can't exceed Mach 1.2 on full throttle.

The biggest cause of this, I think, is that the basic jet is a flying brick in terms of mach 1 drag area. That sudden termination of area at the back of the nozzle causes excessive drag.

Also, I've noticed that the drag seems to increase considerably at somewhat over Mach 1, meaning that even though it has a drag area fully armed with drop tanks of 1.02 m^2, the narrowing mach cone probably causes parts of the plane to suddenly see more airflow at about Mach 1.1.

But yeah, any ideas for making basic jets aerodynamic at high speed would be much appreciated. Some sort of aerodynamically faired tail with spikes or something.

[Dwerto]

You should make it more clear exactly what version of KSP this challenge is for because version 1.0.3 reduced the thrust of jet engines.

[Pds314]

KSP 1.0.4 and FAR 15.4 with the new duct maths. Made a single-turbo first-gen-style fighter and meticulously reduced to a drag area of 0.202 m^2. The wings fell off but the control surfaces and body lift are enough to make it highly maneuverable at high speed. It can now supercruise at Mach 4, although it may melt...

As for landing... I shall attempt it, but it will probably result in death.

-Exploded due to overheating-

Wings have been reinforced, now it's just hard to keep in control due to being aerodynamically unstable an having somewhat of a pitch-down tendency due to certain aerodynamic features.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Pds314

[FourGreenFields]

Tried making a basic jet craft. The problem is, while it readily supercruises even at sea level, it can't exceed Mach 1.2 on full throttle.

While building my basic jet I found that some of my designs (not the one on the leaderboard though) might have had two top speeds (never fully tested, but the specific excess power was decreasing alot as I reached about Mach 1.2). Once you pass Mach 1.3 (in a dive) (at least that was what my designs had to pass) you should be able to stay at that speed if you can keep Mach 1 at 2/3 throttle.

[Hodo]

While building my basic jet I found that some of my designs (not the one on the leaderboard though)

Last edited by Halsfury; 12th July 2015 at 14:49.

I think it is on the board, has been since the 12th.

-FourGreenFields 138.25 points with the P-13 Shrike

-FourGreenFields 43.27 points with the P-12 Flying Pencil

[FourGreenFields]

Last edited by Halsfury; 12th July 2015 at 14:49.

I think it is on the board, has been since the 12th.

-FourGreenFields 138.25 points with the P-13 Shrike

-FourGreenFields 43.27 points with the P-12 Flying Pencil

I made some other designs before that, which I did not post here.

The P 12 doesn't have that problem, although it does have lower specific excess power at about Mach 1.2, compared to when above Mach 1.3 iIrc.

Edited July 16, 2015 by FourGreenFields

[Pds314]

While building my basic jet I found that some of my designs (not the one on the leaderboard though) might have had two top speeds (never fully tested, but the specific excess power was decreasing alot as I reached about Mach 1.2). Once you pass Mach 1.3 (in a dive) (at least that was what my designs had to pass) you should be able to stay at that speed if you can keep Mach 1 at 2/3 throttle.

I reached mach 1.5 in a stoop dive, but it started losing speed afterward. The point is moot since I updated FAR and subtle changes have increased the drag of that craft by 30%.

Odd. It seems that with basic jets, even a craft with 0.71 m^2 area can't well exceed 400 m/s in level flight, ever.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Pds314

[FourGreenFields]

I reached mach 1.5 in a stoop dive, but it started losing speed afterward. The point is moot since I updated FAR and subtle changes have increased the drag of that craft by 30%.

Odd. It seems that with basic jets, even a craft with 0.71 m^2 area can't well exceed 400 m/s in level flight, ever.

Which is why I built a plane with 0.19m² wave drag area. You need to sacrifice nearly everything else for low drag here (although hypersonic drag might be higher than it could be for my "Flying Pencil", but who caes if it reaches Mach 2).

[Hodo]

Which is why I built a plane with 0.19m² wave drag area. You need to sacrifice nearly everything else for low drag here (although hypersonic drag might be higher than it could be for my "Flying Pencil", but who caes if it reaches Mach 2).

Your "Flying Pencil" was fast, but it was ugly. And barely could be described as a fighter. But it did achieve something that no other aircraft with a basic jet engine, it went mach 2.

[FourGreenFields]

Your "Flying Pencil" was fast, but it was ugly. And barely could be described as a fighter. But it did achieve something that no other aircraft with a basic jet engine, it went mach 2.

Why not a fighter? Not enough structural stability? Too high aerodynamic stability, leading to too low maneuverability? Would lead to problems when mounting weapons?

[Hodo]

Why not a fighter? Not enough structural stability? Too high aerodynamic stability, leading to too low maneuverability? Would lead to problems when mounting weapons?

Have you tested the combat viability of your craft? Have you mounted a gun, and missiles to it?

[FourGreenFields]

Have you tested the combat viability of your craft? Have you mounted a gun, and missiles to it?

I don't have BD Armory. I could download it I suppose.

Gun should fit in the nose I'd say. Missiles wing mounted (at least outer part of the wing, on the wing root the canard might be in the way, but bombs should fit there), probably also mounted below the cockpit, and on the engines (although I'm not sure whether the latter would be a good idea in RL)

You're right though, I forgot about one thing: The thing has problems with huge ammounts of yawing when rolling, and that does make it useless as gun platform and dogfighter. That might be fixable without reducing top speed below Mach 2 though. Should still be able to fire missiles when BnZing (Boom'n'Zoom. Basicly diving on an enemy guns ablaze, and then diving, or climbing away).

[Hodo]

Halsfury, I should let you know that there are points missing from my two entries.

Both have the ability to pack weapons.

The XF-150A can actually carry up to 13 weapons on it not including the gun.

The XF-149B1 can carry 9 total. 5 internally and 4 externally, again not including the gun.

So the XF-150A should be 26+68=94

And the XF-149B1 should be 48+18=66.

[FourGreenFields]

@Hodo: I've mounted 1 30mm gatling gun (1200 rounds), 3 20mm gatling guns (2600 rounds total), 4 counter measure pods, and 6 rocket rails to it now. Still meets the speed requirement. Also found that the yawing problem can be fixed using the rudder.

To test how good this thing is in actual combat I'd need some opponents ofcourse... (Basic jets obviously). Thx for posting link/uploading!