The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]

[Halsfury]

I should look into AJE actually, maybe I could add rules for it.

In other news I'm happy to present the F-16C Fighting Falcon.

What's so special about this you may ask? Well I checked up on the specs of the real thing and have designed this aircraft to match the F-16C pound for pound, it's acceleration even, is reminiscent of playing Falcon 4.0.

I'm thinking that even though this is clearly a 4th gen fighter and can't get the specs necessary to compete in the challenge, there should be some use for it, maybe a Falcon 4.0 challenge?

I'm going to make an artwork out of this plane, I'm thinking of in front of the runway with the cockpit open and Jeb climbing in with a bunch of ground control guys around it. No not a render, just rendered in graphite:)

- - - Updated - - -

Also this challenge might be impacted by 1.1 when it comes out but this will be great.

http://imgur.com/a/NkzMp

Looking forward to some better engines for us aircraft builders, maybe the "Panther" will become a new favourite engine

Ah and the half meter jet is called the "Juno" that must be referencing the Junkers Jumo 004

Edited August 22, 2015 by Halsfury

[TheHengeProphet]

That page of new and updated parts for 1.1 is pretty [edit]alluring[/edit]... <---_{what was originally said there is apparently not conducive to a family friendly environment?} and thus I have cleaned it up.

That Falcon is awesome, but I'm wondering if that hump on the back is doing anything other than looking wrong for the name of the craft. Would you mind dropping a download link? I'd like to play around with it and maybe dogfight it!

Edited August 22, 2015 by TheHengeProphet

[CrisK]

I should look into AJE actually, maybe I could add rules for it.

In other news I'm happy to present the F-16C Fighting Falcon.

http://i.imgur.com/pXQnJq5.png

Hals, this looks like another winner!

Edit: I updated the Rafale:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edit here are craft files for the Boeing X-32 and the Dassault Rafale. Both are set up to be BDArmory AI drones.*

*And they currently wipe the floor with most of the other planes in this thread. Ohhh snap! The gauntlet has been thrown down! ...Time to hide...

Edited August 22, 2015 by CrisK

[Halsfury]

That page of new and updated parts for 1.1 is pretty [edit]alluring[/edit]... <---_{what was originally said there is apparently not conducive to a family friendly environment?} and thus I have cleaned it up.

That Falcon is awesome, but I'm wondering if that hump on the back is doing anything other than looking wrong for the name of the craft. Would you mind dropping a download link? I'd like to play around with it and maybe dogfight it!

Yeah I think I'm cheating with the humpback, it does serve a wave drag reduction purpose but it's also adding character, even if it's not there on the real thing it's making it look less stock and more as you said, alluring...

craft file:

http://www./download/3j45a1n8aam283i/FAR_BD_F-16C_Fighting_Falcon.craft

It's still not very fast, use 1/3rd throttle for cruise, it makes the fuel flow lower and you still get a quite fast subsonic cruise out of it

Also this challenge has really improved my aircraft designs, check out this Mig-29, only took this morning to do it

[Halsfury]

@ Crisk that's an awful long edit, what mods are you using? (Other than BD armoury)

As it stands I can't destroy your aircraft since they can't load:P

Also I took the Mig 29 to higher altitude and it's showing a typical Russian behaviour pattern of quick turns at low speed and sluggish turns at high speed, also due to a bit of a mix up with plans, the Mig 29 that you just saw will be renamed as Su-27:rolleyes:

[tetryds]

This is a fighter I made a while ago that works now since the shielding bug got fixed on the FAR dev build:

Soon I will optimize it's supersonic supermaneuverability capabilities.

Yes, you read it right.

[CrisK]

@ Crisk that's an awful long edit, what mods are you using? (Other than BD armoury)

As it stands I can't destroy your aircraft since they can't load:P

Also I took the Mig 29 to higher altitude and it's showing a typical Russian behaviour pattern of quick turns at low speed and sluggish turns at high speed, also due to a bit of a mix up with plans, the Mig 29 that you just saw will be renamed as Su-27:rolleyes:

What can I say? When you post cool designs it inspires me to improve own designs.

The X-32 uses FAR, B9 Procedural Wings, Adjustable Landing Gear, BDArmory, MK2 Expansion, Infernal Robotics.

The Rafale uses FAR, B9 Procedural Wings, Adjustable Landing Gear, BDArmory. I can remove the landing gear if you want to avoid installing another mod.

This is a fighter I made a while ago that works now since the shielding bug got fixed on the FAR dev build:

http://i.imgur.com/zlQeOg8h.jpg

Soon I will optimize it's supersonic supermaneuverability capabilities.

Yes, you read it right.

Cool!

Edited August 22, 2015 by CrisK
Woops, forgot infernal robotics in the x32

[Halsfury]

This is a fighter I made a while ago that works now since the shielding bug got fixed on the FAR dev build:

http://i.imgur.com/zlQeOg8h.jpg

Soon I will optimize it's supersonic supermaneuverability capabilities.

Yes, you read it right.

That's incredible, what mods?

[Halsfury]

Ok Also I think I tallied up Darth's F-18 so I'll be posting the score.

14 pts for weapons

1 for TWR

4.32 for external stores

5 for 9 g's

0.5 pts for 89 min time in super cruise

2 pts for super cruise at mach 1.2

36 points for max speed

62.28 points

[FourGreenFields]

Yeah I think I'm cheating with the humpback, it does serve a wave drag reduction purpose but it's also adding character, even if it's not there on the real thing it's making it look less stock and more as you said, alluring...

http://i.imgur.com/3sCMeUb.png

craft file:

http://www./download/3j45a1n8aam283i/FAR_BD_F-16C_Fighting_Falcon.craft

Is the Fighting Falcon a replica, or just inspired by another plane?

I want to know how much I can modify it.

Seriously though, use B9PW. Makes stuff both easier and better.

[Halsfury]

It's a stock replica in theory but there are some things which I can't reproduce in stock, oh and adjustable wheels of course

Also I get frustrated with B9 wings, I've always been a stock builder.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Halsfury

[tetryds]

That's incredible, what mods?

Pwings, pparts and adj landing gear.

Will use kerbal paint to fix the cockpit and intake paint.

[CrisK]

I modified my ATF-14 using tricks that I learned from Hals and clown's designs.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Halsfury]

I modified my ATF-14 using tricks that I learned from Hals and clown's designs.

http://imgur.com/a/aYU5Q

That's interesting

I've been fighting against your Rafale with the Su-27 which I just built, frankly I've got to criticize the Rafale's poor turn performance, I got behind it every time no matter how high or how low I chased.

Also I recently discovered that it has it's thrust limiter set high, that was cheeky of you

Victory!

Somewhere in that debris cloud is a Crisk Rafale

I really hated the low turn rate on the Rafale, even though it was a bullet it had such bad manoeuvrability I felt that flying it really consisted of holding down S.

Got a Dev version which is not hampered by AI limits?

Also to achieve this I turned down the max speed slightly, I had to, without reducing the speed the plane would just fly off past render range and disappear.

On the plus side, the speed meant that missiles were very ineffective, the only missile which got close enough to kill was a Sparrow fired from 700 meters, only after I had done some damage with gun hits.

Final verdict is that the Rafale is too extreme on speed. It would be among the best if it could get 9 g's on pitch, I have a suspicion that the wing you have made is of the wrong shape and that it could be fixed with a bit of reworking. The Rafale doesn't use such a simple delta wing in fact is has a chine in the front and a forward sweep on the trailing edge. Also the wing has a pretty fat root and the CoL could be closer to the CoM. Hopefully this will mitigate the inherent flaws of a delta wing giving it greater manoeuvrability

More Edits:

Also I really like your trick for mounting multiple missiles onto 1 strut.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Halsfury

[FourGreenFields]

Also I get frustrated with B9 wings, I've always been a stock builder.

I couldn't build properly without B9PW. Makes for much smoother wing shapes, and that reduces shockwaves, if I am not mistaken. Looks better anyway.

Also, thinner or thicker wings can't be built without it. And they can hold fuel.

[CrisK]

That's interesting

I've been fighting against your Rafale with the Su-27 which I just built, frankly I've got to criticize the Rafale's poor turn performance, I got behind it every time no matter how high or how low I chased.

Also I recently discovered that it has it's thrust limiter set high, that was cheeky of you

Victory!

http://i.imgur.com/U8mf1Hs.png

Somewhere in that debris cloud is a Crisk Rafale

I really hated the low turn rate on the Rafale, even though it was a bullet it had such bad manoeuvrability I felt that flying it really consisted of holding down S.

Got a Dev version which is not hampered by AI limits?

Also to achieve this I turned down the max speed slightly, I had to, without reducing the speed the plane would just fly off past render range and disappear.

On the plus side, the speed meant that missiles were very ineffective, the only missile which got close enough to kill was a Sparrow fired from 700 meters, only after I had done some damage with gun hits.

Final verdict is that the Rafale is too extreme on speed. It would be among the best if it could get 9 g's on pitch, I have a suspicion that the wing you have made is of the wrong shape and that it could be fixed with a bit of reworking. The Rafale doesn't use such a simple delta wing in fact is has a chine in the front and a forward sweep on the trailing edge. Also the wing has a pretty fat root and the CoL could be closer to the CoM. Hopefully this will mitigate the inherent flaws of a delta wing giving it greater manoeuvrability

More Edits:

Also I really like your trick for mounting multiple missiles onto 1 strut.

Well done, haha! Try setting the AI's steer limiter to 1, steer dampening to 3, and lower the max speed to Mach 1.

It's strange that you find that the Rafale has a slow turning radius! It has a much faster turning radius than any of the fighters in this thread other than the X-32. This makes me wonder if the FAR settings that I applied to the control surfaces aren't saved in the craft file... Really, it turns so quickly (due to the canards) that it can snap itself in half at low altitudes.

Vis-à-vis the thrust: set it to 50% if you're flying it manually! I tried setting it anywhere from 40% to 100% to try to create a good AI drone. Any higher than 60% and the AI loses control of the plane.

PS: If you don't mind the increased part count, you can make really cool missile mounts by adding missile rails to the edges of those pylons.

Edited August 23, 2015 by CrisK

[Halsfury]

Well done, haha! Try setting the AI's steer limiter to 1, steer dampening to 3, and lower the max speed to Mach 1.

It's strange that you find that the Rafale has a slow turning radius! It has a much faster turning radius than any of the fighters in this thread other than the X-32. This makes me wonder if the FAR settings that I applied to the control surfaces aren't saved in the craft file... Really, it turns so quickly (due to the canards) that it can snap itself in half at low altitudes.

Vis-à-vis the thrust: set it to 50% if you're flying it manually! I tried setting it anywhere from 40% to 100% to try to create a good AI drone. Any higher than 60% and the AI loses control of the plane.

PS: If you don't mind the increased part count, you can make really cool missile mounts by adding missile rails to the edges of those pylons.

Maybe it's that you're running an older version of B9 wings, it's the only thing I can think of

I was unable to get it to turn and the AI was in the same situation, just always running away.

Also I have to release the Su-27, it's a great craft

[Halsfury]

The Rafale is a difficult case, like many delta wings it is always fighting against itself, it has plenty of stability, which is also a concern.

On the real thing the wings have a downwards sweep to counteract this. I think there are a few other tricks Dassault is using, leading edge flaps are used and the wings have a minor forward sweep on the trailing edge.

Also the wings are thin and just look at the sweep on them! Clearly the intention is both to have negative stability and as it turns in high G manoeuvres to minimize "resistance" if you will, of the layer of air on top of the wing

[FourGreenFields]

On the real thing the wings have a downwards sweep to counteract this

You mean the wings are anhedral, right?

[CrisK]

Hals, I think that you're overthinking this. There's a limit to FAR's realism.

I stumbled on a quirk that amuses me: if I rotate the body of the X-32 by 90% then it flies insanely well. It can perform the tightest loops, turns, etc. that I've ever seen on a plane using FAR. Of course, this makes it absolutely hideous (even more so than it was before)!

Goofy designs like this fly amazingly well in FAR:

[Halsfury]

You mean the wings are anhedral, right?

Yes, also I've been trying to match the wings on Crisk's plane to the Rafale, I thinned them out a bunch at the root and I'm thinking I need a strake to play the part of the blended wing body before it actually turns into the wing.

It's a very complex aircraft from an aerodynamics perspective. Once I get the wing just right, I'll add weapons to it and see how it flies.

@ Crisk No I'm not overthinking it, FAR can take account of these details, at any rate your delta wing was too big and too low aspect, I'll get it to manoeuvre like it ought to, you know the real thing has flown as slow as 15mph while maintaining control?

Edited August 23, 2015 by Halsfury

[CrisK]

Yes, also I've been trying to match the wings on Crisk's plane to the Rafale, I thinned them out a bunch at the root and I'm thinking I need a strake to play the part of the blended wing body before it actually turns into the wing.

It's a very complex aircraft from an aerodynamics perspective. Once I get the wing just right, I'll add weapons to it and see how it flies.

@ Crisk No I'm not overthinking it, FAR can take account of these details, at any rate your delta wing was too big and too low aspect, I'll get it to manoeuvre like it ought to, you know the real thing has flown as slow as 15mph while maintaining control?

Cool. You're welcome to put the Halsfury branding on the Rafale once you've modified it.

[Halsfury]

Cool. You're welcome to put the Halsfury branding on the Rafale once you've modified it.

Well, my intention was mainly to take the stiffness out of the controls, now it's epic

I got to 90 degrees AoA before it quit on me

Aww yes preparing for the leaf manoeuvre

Leaf!

EDIT: I don't know why the FAR GUI is failing to display the flight status, it is as I'm playing the game, anyway needless to say this is a large scale stall...

I love this design...

Landing speed was 75m/s, it's very smooth across it's flight profile, and I never had to break out the flaps for all those manoeuvres

Edited August 23, 2015 by Halsfury

[CrisK]

Well, my intention was mainly to take the stiffness out of the controls, now it's epic

http://i.imgur.com/7Cvq8VF.png

I got to 90 degrees AoA before it quit on me

Aww yes preparing for the leaf manoeuvre

http://i.imgur.com/qCTZcsG.png

Leaf!

http://i.imgur.com/O5M5f8G.png

EDIT: I don't know why the FAR GUI is failing to display the flight status, it is as I'm playing the game, anyway needless to say this is a large scale stall...

I love this design...

Landing speed was 75m/s, it's very smooth across it's flight profile, and I never had to break out the flaps for all those manoeuvres

It looks great! How does it perform at high speed maneuvers? I like the improved wing shape.

[Halsfury]

It looks great! How does it perform at high speed maneuvers? I like the improved wing shape.

At high speed it reverts to how it was before down low, controls stiffen up a bit but it has the recommended 6g turn at 200 to 300m/s at 5000m.

At 15,000m it goes from flight mode normal to large AoA sideslip and doesn't have a stall point within 40 degrees of your velocity vector

Instead it is meta-stable in the direction you point the nose and the velocity vector makes itself accommodating to your desired flight path. It's quite unusual to fly, as I said it's you point the nose and physics takes over and now you're flying in a different direction

EDIT: I added the Halsfury TM area ruling blister to the rear of the cockpit, I wasn't a fan of the obvious parts clipping of the two Mk 2 pods

Also you might have noticed the large leading edge slat running across the wing, I cheated here, on the real thing there are 2 slats which can be independently computer controlled, want to invent a KOS script to adjust wing slats on negative stability fighters? lol

- - - Updated - - -

Also I think I've held you in suspense long enough now

I'll leave it to you to arm it

http://www./download/09qj4eqg2pm8e4v/FAR_BD_Dassault_Rafale_F1.craft

Also slap a speed brake on there while you're at it, it could use the control

Edited August 23, 2015 by Halsfury