[1.0.5] Kerbal Planetary Base Systems v1.0.2 Released!

[Mecripp]

I appreciate the texture re-use on those parts.

A small question - if you're trying to do all the parts for all the life support mods, will these be in seperate sub-releases? Or do the TAC guys get LSI bits lying around and vice versa?

A more general ponderance I'm trying to solve: Those massive battery banks store a whopping 3600 energy. This is fantastic until you realise it's enough to run a greenhouse asking for 1 energy per second for one hour. Are my bases meant to have huge long strings of battery banks lined up, or is life support not meant to be viable until you've got mining rig-supplied fuel cells and/or RTGs running? This is an honest question; it's just been a headscratcher.

If your talking to me think, I'm about done with the LS part adding unless someone ask about one of the other ones and what you mean ( TAC guys get LSI bits lying around ) I just didn't do the Recyclers and for them was going to use the ( K&K Planetary ISRU ) part but re-texturing that well thinking about it lol and on your energy problem you could edit the file or you have a part in mind ?

[tater]

I'd say it's reasonable to expect infrastructure for things like greenhouses overnight.

[Mecripp]

If anyone is good at writing a FStextureSwitch if you could give me a hand that is a hit and miss for me but would like to do a anther set of textures for the tac parts ?

EDIT- Love this mod lol been playing around with all kinds of stuff

Edited August 7, 2015 by Mecripp2

[Nils277]

Just to show you some progress until the parts are finished, here is the set of parts for USI-LS:

I was just lamenting the fact that the I-Beam comes at the composites node in the tech tree, so in my career playthru I'm doing, I've unlocked all of the needed parts from your pack to make a base, except I can't make the landing system because I need the I-Beam...

Also I think it's going to depend on how you see your mod fitting in (or not) with RoverDude's MKS (another where I feel like the parts come just a tad to soon in the tree...

I think what it boils down too is this question: Is your mod for making "end game" bases (IE the player should have mostly filled out the tech tree by the time they use your parts), or is your mod meant to help the player propel themselves along the tech tree and earn more money in contracts?

edit: Expanding my thoughts

Another mod that fits in with these is Pathfinder. I feel like it fills the need of an early tech tree base system (it's like tents). Then you move into MKS/OKS modules which are meant for mid to late tree. I think these parts are the best looking and feel like stock, and I'd actually prefer to use them as MKS parts if you want my brutal honesty ...

ok now I'm just blathering...

To be honest: I'm not really sure if these parts should be for late game or not. On one hand, i would like to already have at least the most basic parts (e.g. Hab Mk1) available for the first contracts with bases on a planet or moon. On the other hand it would make a better end-game (and would probably be more realistic) if the parts for bases are available later. This would be like it is now in reality: We already have a quite complex station in orbit but are still many years from a base on mars or even moon.

It seems really hard to expand the parts list with things that are functionally new and keep balance. Maybe consider supporting CTT? It has nodes for parts with similar functionality. Right now I'm playing either creative or stock TT, but usually CTT was the first thing to install.

CTT is already planned

Edited August 7, 2015 by Nils277

[Mecripp]

O can't wait to get my hands on them parts Nils277

[Nils277]

I appreciate the texture re-use on those parts.

A small question - if you're trying to do all the parts for all the life support mods, will these be in seperate sub-releases? Or do the TAC guys get LSI bits lying around and vice versa?

A more general ponderance I'm trying to solve: Those massive battery banks store a whopping 3600 energy. This is fantastic until you realise it's enough to run a greenhouse asking for 1 energy per second for one hour. Are my bases meant to have huge long strings of battery banks lined up, or is life support not meant to be viable until you've got mining rig-supplied fuel cells and/or RTGs running? This is an honest question; it's just been a headscratcher.

The parts for the different mods will be all in the main download but they will be all in separate *.zip files. So just have to unzip the "mod support pack" you want and leave the others (or delete them). I decided to go the .zip way to not have all parts loaded while still being able to offer an all in one package for KerbalStuff and CKAN.

It would be possible to make seperate packs on Curse but judging from the download numbers and the hate for Curse this would not be an option. Maybe one day when i have the time to put all of this on GIT.

Until now i thought i was relatively generous with the energy consumption of the greenhouse. The original small greenhouse in USI uses three times more energy while producing significantly fewer supplies.

O can't wait to get my hands on them parts Nils277

Happy to hear. You are the first one who used the container templates.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Nils277

[rottielover]

"end-game (and would probably be more realistic) if the parts for bases are available later. This would be like it is now in reality: We already have a quite complex station in orbit but are still many years from a base on mars or even moon."

Excellent point, though if you think about it, the plans have been on the drawing boards since before the Apollo missions. What the human race has lacked is the commitment to funding and research to make off-world bases possible. Think of it this way, it's been 46 years since we landed on the men on the moon.. ,. Put another way, we had the human will, spirit, and drive to put people on the moon nearly 50 years ago. Had we continued funding the space program at those levels (proposal to landing in less than 10 years), in some alternate timeline we have probably colonized Europa

[Mecripp]

Here is a look at some more Tac textures this are by zzz_Eagleshift

[SSMI]

Just to show you some progress until the parts are finished, here is the set of parts for USI-LS:

http://i.imgur.com/Dd38gRr.png

Cant wait to get those parts. I'm excited for LS parts. I'm not however sure how I feel about ore to fertilizer. Are you planning to fit into the MKS/OKS system? It doesn't seem to really match. Of course I can't see all the parts you've made or how they are put together.

To be honest: I'm not really sure if these parts should be for late game or not. On one hand, i would like to already have at least the most basic parts (e.g. Hab Mk1) available for the first contracts with bases on a planet or moon. On the other hand it would make a better end-game (and would probably be more realistic) if the parts for bases are available later. This would be like it is now in reality: We already have a quite complex station in orbit but are still many years from a base on mars or even moon.

CTT is already planned

They feel like they should go at about the same level of the tech tree as the mks/oks parts (for CTT at least; I'm not sure about stock) to me.

A question about the mod compatability. Can't you keep the parts from loading with a NEEDS[KIS] or NEEDS[TAC-LS] module manager qualifier? Then people wouldn't have to unzip the parts.

[rottielover]

"ore to fertilizer" - I tend to agree with SSMI here. RoverDude in a post someplace or in the wiki or something stated that the reason he has no converter cycle is to make Fert a resource that you can only source from Kerbin, making it extremely valuable because of the boost it gives your greenhouses.

That's why Mulch /= Fertilizer 1

[Starwaster]

Mulch should be a byproduct of recycling organics.

Also.

Mulching is a process of inbred fertilization which employs certain decomposed organic materials-- including, but not limited to animal sediment-- to blanket an area in which vegetation is desired. The procedure enriches the soil for stimulated plant development while, at the same time, preventing erosion and decreasing the evaporation of moisture from the ground.

[rottielover]

tell Rover Dude he came up with it.

In the MKS cycle for USI-LS (I hope I remember this right) Kerbals consume "Supplies" and produce "Mulch" which can then be converted by a greenhouse back into supplies. "Fertilizer" gives the greenhouse a "bonus" in that "fertilizer" + "Mulch" yields more supplies than just mulch.

[Reiver]

Perhaps the happy medium is to have the algae tanks turn Ore to Mulch?

This way Fertiliser remains the valuable 'supercharger' resource, but you can render greenhouse-powered colonies self-sufficient if you're willing to use Ore to do it. As a bonus, Ore is heavy, so you don't just haul it round to supply your space stations - those want to run on Fertilizer instead.

- - - Updated - - -

The parts for the different mods will be all in the main download but they will be all in separate *.zip files. So just have to unzip the "mod support pack" you want and leave the others (or delete them). I decided to go the .zip way to not have all parts loaded while still being able to offer an all in one package for KerbalStuff and CKAN.

It would be possible to make seperate packs on Curse but judging from the download numbers and the hate for Curse this would not be an option. Maybe one day when i have the time to put all of this on GIT.

Until now i thought i was relatively generous with the energy consumption of the greenhouse. The original small greenhouse in USI uses three times more energy while producing significantly fewer supplies.

No, no, your power consumption is entirely reasonable! It's just a headscratcher on how to power the thing overnight on batteries. Perhaps the secret is 'use Fertiliser to boost the output during the day to compensate for the night time production loss, and hurry up with those fuel cells if you want total self-sufficiency'...

And your plans with the .zips is pretty solid. You could, I suppose, go so far as to release mini-mods on CKAN or something to split 'em out if you wish, but I wouldn't panic too much on that. I'm loving this stuff, dude!

Do you plan to make a utility bay end-cap? So you can have pretty curved base ends.

[rasta013]

You might be right that they are a bit early in the TT. I placed the parts at nodes which had parts that had the most similarities. Are there more people thinking the parts are too early in the tech tree?If so i will review this in one of the next iterations.

Throwing my 2 cents in here on the TT placement. I personally feel they come early. I use CTT and the Pathfinder mod mentioned earlier. Pathfinder gives me my temporary mobile scouting base but at the same time I'm getting those parts opened up I'm already getting the Mk 1 Hab and gangway parts. One more node up and I've got the adapter which combined with some creative strutting means I can milk the Modular Storage unit for fuel or storage while also getting my first permanent surface pieces put in place. Alongside that idea, at the same time we get the Planetary Lab/Greenhouse we're also just getting the first true station module from stock with the MPL. This means we're essentially getting our first station parts and our final permanent base parts at the same time.

This just seemed a bit wonky to me so I've personally written my own CTT file and moved most of the KPBS pieces 2-3 nodes deeper. I don't go so far as moving the parts to the end of the tree since I don't treat these as true end game items but rather more along the lines of a major stepping stone to that level of tech. The way I see it the basic idea is to build using the adapters/I-beams and deliver using the Mk3 or 3.75m platforms and that translates into a need for parts to be moved further up the tree.

[Nils277]

I'm not however sure how I feel about ore to fertilizer. Are you planning to fit into the MKS/OKS system? It doesn't seem to really match. Of course I can't see all the parts you've made or how they are put together.

They feel like they should go at about the same level of the tech tree as the mks/oks parts (for CTT at least; I'm not sure about stock) to me.

A question about the mod compatability. Can't you keep the parts from loading with a NEEDS[KIS] or NEEDS[TAC-LS] module manager qualifier? Then people wouldn't have to unzip the parts.

Either i'm too stupid to use ModuleManager right or i have some weird bug. I tried this for the parts and they don't want to show up at all. I also tried the parts from univeral storage (which has the right modulemanager version in it's download) and the parts also don't show up. It would be nice to let MM manage the availability of the parts.

Just a question: Does MM also take care that the data and textures for parts that are unavailable are unloaded from the memory? I see in the logs that all the textures are loaded separatly from the models and it would be bad to have a couple of models and textures wasting RAM although they are not needed.

"ore to fertilizer" - I tend to agree with SSMI here. RoverDude in a post someplace or in the wiki or something stated that the reason he has no converter cycle is to make Fert a resource that you can only source from Kerbin, making it extremely valuable because of the boost it gives your greenhouses.

That's why Mulch /= Fertilizer 1

You have a good point. I also remember that Roverdude said this somewhere in the forum. Maybe the idea to turn ore into mulch might be better. Does anyone know if/how it is possible to make a part only available at certain difficulty settings. So a closed life cycle is only possible in easy modes and you don't have that part in hard or medium?

[SSMI]

Did you look at the universal storage parts when trying to figure out the module manager? Here is the cfg for the CO2 tank. Whether it loads the textures or not I don't know. The needs portion seems pretty straight forward though. I do know that it uses the root gamedata folder name.

PART:NEEDS[LifeSupport|IoncrossCrewSupport|TacLifeSupport]
{
//Basic
    author = Paul Kingtiger & Daishi
    mesh = model.mu
    module = Part
    name = US_1R310_Wedge_CarbonDioxide
    rescaleFactor = 1


//Node
    attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0
    node_stack_back = 0.187, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0


//Description    
    category = Utility
    description = Contains four emptied Carbon Dioxide tanks to integrate into a life support system. Once installed and properly connected, waste gas can be collected and pressurised to store for conversion and reuse. Warranty void if jury-rigged to soda machines.
    manufacturer = New Horizons & Nox Industrial
    subcategory = 0
    title = Universal Storage: C02 Canister


//Costs & RD    
    cost = 300
    entryCost = 1500
    TechRequired = specializedElectrics


//Physical
    bulkheadProfiles = wedge
    crashTolerance = 7
    mass = 0.155
    maxTemp = 1200
    emissiveConstant = 0.95
    thermalMassModifier = 4.0


//Drag
    angularDrag = 1
    dragModelType = default
    maximum_drag = 0.2
    minimum_drag = 0.2    


//Animation
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleAnimator
        animationName = Take 001
        guiEnableName = Open Hatch
        guiDisableName = Close Hatch
        actionEnableName = Open Hatch
        actionDisableName = Close Hatch
        animationSpeed = 0.5
        oneShot = false
        activeEditor = true
        activeFlight = true
        activeUnfocused = true
        unfocusedRange = 2
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleAnimator
        animationName = Take 002          
        guiEnableName = Structure Off                    
        guiDisableName = Structure On                 
        animationSpeed = 1000                       
        oneShot = false                            
        activeEditor = true                       
        activeFlight = false                      
        activeUnfocused = false
        unfocusedRange = 5
    }


//KIS
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKISItemEvaTweaker
        editorItemsCategory = false
        carriable = true
        equipSlot = jetpack
        equipMeshName = jetpack_base01
        equipBoneName = bn_jetpack01
        equipPos = (0,-0.05,-0.3)
        equipDir = (0,270,0)
        runSpeed = 1
    }    


//Resources
    RESOURCE
    {
        name = CarbonDioxide
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 3125
    }
}

[Nils277]

Thanks, got it to work after i redownloaded MM yesterday :-)

[EdusacconBR]

which kind of stuff are you working on?

[SSMI]

I thought of a way to do hard and easy mode with module manager. You could put easy mode into you parts. Then you could have a set of MM configs that overwrite that to match MKS is MKS is installed NEEDS[MKS]. Then if they aren't useing MKS they don't even need to know about it.

[rottielover]

Is this really a "hard vs easy" mode question? Or is this really a "if you have USI-LS AND you have MKS, THEN have these parts" question ??

So here's the thing I was thinking about... If you have MKS, then you need "substrate". And you could turn substrate + water into compost (I think that's the TAC LS loop). I have to go look but I think you can combine substrate, water and some electric charge (you know to run the mixer), and get mulch ?

I mean chances are that if you have TAC or USI-LS you're going to have MKS right? So my suggestion would be that if the user only has the LS mod, then give them parts that let them prolong but not eliminate supply runs (ALA TAC's filters and stuff). If however you have MKS installed, then you should get another part that will let you do closed loop.

How does that sound?

[Mecripp]

Is this really a "hard vs easy" mode question? Or is this really a "if you have USI-LS AND you have MKS, THEN have these parts" question ??

So here's the thing I was thinking about... If you have MKS, then you need "substrate". And you could turn substrate + water into compost (I think that's the TAC LS loop). I have to go look but I think you can combine substrate, water and some electric charge (you know to run the mixer), and get mulch ?

I mean chances are that if you have TAC or USI-LS you're going to have MKS right? So my suggestion would be that if the user only has the LS mod, then give them parts that let them prolong but not eliminate supply runs (ALA TAC's filters and stuff). If however you have MKS installed, then you should get another part that will let you do closed loop.

How does that sound?

Really why would you have MKS installed if you have this mod or any LS mod ?

[Nils277]

which kind of stuff are you working on?

Still the LS mods. I had some really busy weeks with my studies etc. so progress is way slower than i hoped. :-/

I mean chances are that if you have TAC or USI-LS you're going to have MKS right? So my suggestion would be that if the user only has the LS mod, then give them parts that let them prolong but not eliminate supply runs (ALA TAC's filters and stuff). If however you have MKS installed, then you should get another part that will let you do closed loop.

How does that sound?

This sounds like a quite good idea. This would also ensure that my mod does not interfere with MKS and allows for further mods support in that direction.

[rottielover]

Really why would you have MKS installed if you have this mod or any LS mod ?

Not sure I understand the question... If you have any LS mod, then the next logical progression from that is to extend it to in-situ replenishment. Currently, the only mod with in-situ / self sustaining setups is MKS/OKS. RoverDude included all the code needed to setup these life support cycles.

Not understanding exactly how mods work, maybe Planetary base systems could replace mks if it has the converters etc. But you have to also keep in mind that MKS extends more than just the LS mods, it also extends Extraplanetary Launchpads ...

OHHHHH Nils what do you think about a rocket parts converter module? something that takes metals and turns them into rocketparts (EPL) or partskits (OSE Workshop)

[EdusacconBR]

the magazine on the airlock is called the daily kebal

[Mecripp]

There are others besides MKS that had green houses and so far has the code you can do it all with stock Modules and for LS there is also Soylent http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/124501-1-0-4-Soylent-closing-the-Life-Support-cycle-with-Algae-v0-2-2015-06-20