Xenon Engines

[matissVEVO]

I think that Squad would need to add more xenon engines, the only one right now seems almost useless.

[Red Iron Crown]

How would you make a new xenon engine different? Just a bigger version?

[klgraham1013]

I disagree about it being useless. I use it quite a bit.

[Nothalogh]

Honestly, I'd like to see a half sized Ion engine for small probes

[Feradose]

I'd like an 1.25 or 2.5m version for big motherships where nuclear propulsion is just too problematic with heavy fuel and heavy engine.

It also would better leave a sweet looking blue trail

[Stryde]

I'm not really looking forward for 1.25 or 2.5 meter ion engines until there's bigger RTGs in game. Right now, any ion propulsion past Duna orbit would take a huge amount of solar panels or a couple dozen RTGs.

[Coyote27]

I'm not really looking forward for 1.25 or 2.5 meter ion engines until there's bigger RTGs in game.

How about a proper fission reactor, then?

[Feradose]

I'm not really looking forward for 1.25 or 2.5 meter ion engines until there's bigger RTGs in game. Right now, any ion propulsion past Duna orbit would take a huge amount of solar panels or a couple dozen RTGs.

How about Big-S concentrated panels?

(Or a giant mirror that focuses light on a generator to generate electric)

Would make Moho-Dres region easier

[GeneralVeers]

How would you make a new xenon engine different? Just a bigger version?

This.

How about a proper fission reactor, then?

Also this.

I don't know exactly why, but I love ion engines. The game definitely needs a bigger ion engine, and a bigger non-solar power generator, so I am hereby "me too"-ing both of these ideas.

[Woksaus]

I'd rather see the equivalent of TVR-X00L Stack Adapters for Small->Tiny parts added, that would give you the same effect (more thrust/area), but higher versatility, since you can also use it for other parts.

[Kaos]

Beside varying in size, you could also vary Isp and energy usage. In real world with 4 times the energy usage you can double the thrust and keep the xenon usage, hence doubling the Isp. This might also be interesting as game mechanic and would open a wide range of different xenon engines.

[logan2611]

I would also like bigger Xenon engines, the current one's thrust is, let's just say lacking. Even though it is useful for small space probes and very long missions.

[Streetwind]

I'd like an 1.25 or 2.5m version for big motherships where nuclear propulsion is just too problematic with heavy fuel and heavy engine.

It also would better leave a sweet looking blue trail

Near Future has it...

I'm not really looking forward for 1.25 or 2.5 meter ion engines until there's bigger RTGs in game. Right now, any ion propulsion past Duna orbit would take a huge amount of solar panels or a couple dozen RTGs.

Near Future has it...

How about a proper fission reactor, then?

Near Future has it...

I'd rather see the equivalent of TVR-X00L Stack Adapters for Small->Tiny parts added, that would give you the same effect (more thrust/area), but higher versatility, since you can also use it for other parts.

Near Future has it...

Beside varying in size, you could also vary Isp and energy usage. In real world with 4 times the energy usage you can double the thrust and keep the xenon usage, hence doubling the Isp. This might also be interesting as game mechanic and would open a wide range of different xenon engines.

Near Future has it...

Haha, okay, enough shameless advertising On topic:

A lot of people run off of the assumption that the stock Dawn engine is somehow underpowered. If you actually do the math, though, it turns out to be not quite true. In fact, the Dawn engine got way overbuffed over time and is now absurdly good. It is by far the best vacuum engine in the entire game, performance wise. It makes the LV-N look like a slow child that eats glue.

So why isn't everyone using it for everything? Because to be useful, you need TWR. And in order to actually equal a LV-N in TWR, you need a large number of engines, power production pieces, and tanks. The part count will negatively impact your framerate. Squad's balancing blunder is fortitiously countered by the limitations of the game engine here. Also, the recent changes in the solar power curve did a lot to curb the absurd potential of the Dawn. The majority of the game's content, in terms of celestial bodies to visit, lies further out from the sun than Kerbin, and solar output drops very rapidly now - much more than it did in older versions. Solar electric propulsion at Jool is so impractical, it's never worth it.

But what if you had bigger engines, bigger tanks, and better non-solar power production? Suddenly all the things that keep the Dawn in check are removed, and you get a new class of electric propulsion that's genuinely, consistently stronger than all other stock choices by a significant margin.

If you want to explore how that feels, there's the aforementioned Near Future suite of mods. It offers high performance nuclear power production and powerful electric engines in all size classes. That's why it is recommended you play it with the Community Tech Tree, so there is actually a proper tech progression for these parts. They sure don't properly fit into the stock tree or in sandbox mode (but you can of course play that way, if you wantd to).

For implementation into stock KSP, though? That would require a lot of core systems changes in order to accomodate vertical performance progression (and result in a lot of redundant parts in sandbox mode). The other alternative would be to nerf the Dawn to be in line with other endgame vacuum engines, and base bigger electric engines off of that. Which, yes, will result in engines that have quite a lot less thrust and a lot more power hunger than now. That extremely high Isp needs to be countered somehow.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Streetwind

[carmonben]

what if you had xenon rcs nodes ... just sayin

[Streetwind]

The RCS system would need to be redone from the ground up. The current one can't handle bipropellant (like xenon + Ec) on a RCS block that has more than one nozzle.

Well, who knows what the Unity 5 port brings...

[tater]

I'd like to see "on rails" constant acceleration trajectories, then nerf the living **** out of the ion engines

[cantab]

I find the current ion engine fine. Now that Squad added decent sized xenon tanks you can do useful missions with it if you have a bit of patience, for example this ship took a lander to Moho, then stopped off at Gilly and Bop for jetpack landings afterwards.

For the outer solar system I'm told fuel cell ion ships can work well, giving an effective Isp of around 1600 s. That said a big solar panel might be nice, enough that one or two can run an ion engine at Jool because when you need 12 gigantors a big nuisance is stopping them shading each other. As for a nuclear reactor, well maybe. There have been real nuclear reactors in space, it's somewhat proven technology, but getting the game balance right could be tricky.

[Kaos]

I'd like to see "on rails" constant acceleration trajectories, then nerf the living **** out of the ion engines

I'd like that too. Then solar sails could be added, which I would also like to have. But I fear, the necessary changes would be big, so this will not happen for a long time.

[fireblade274]

Mmmmmm.. Kerbodyne sized Ion Engine? I'd be down