Mobile Processing Lab Still Overpowered/Broken?

[Bug_]

There are 2 issues in my opinion of the MPL:

1 - If you start researching, and go back to the space center, data will continue to be converted into science despite insufficient electrical charge.

2 - Still seems like it generates too much science and you can unlock the whole tech tree way too fast.

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To deal with issue number 1, I think there is a quite satisfactory solution. I assume what's going on in the game's code in the background, is that whenever a ship isn't loaded into physics and has research started, the game just applies the conversion at whatever rate, and electricity requirements are ignored because the ship WOULD need to be loaded into physics to compute how much electricity is generated by solar. That could be computationally expensive if you start adding a few research labs throughout the solar system. So the solution I would think would make sense, would be to just compute a quick number from the geometry and the type of solar panels on your ship, as to what percentage of incident sunlight is converted into electricity. Then, if the ship is illuminated, it generates electricity, if it isn't it doesn't. Essentially just do a really crude, as light as computationally possible, calculation of received electricity from solar, and then use that result in calculating how much data is converted into science. Yes, it's not that hard to add solar panels anyway and it only would cost 1000 or so funds to cover the generation requirements for a researching lab, so if the game takes the shortcut of ignoring electricity requirements it's kind of justified. But I prefer the idea of being sh*t out of luck if you didn't account for the amount of electricity that researching requires. I would also suggest that this solution be applied to drilling and ore accumulation... I've not tested it but I assume it just ignores electricity requirements. And ESPECIALLY with the drill, it takes a LOT of electricity and half the planet it's on is in darkness half the time, so I would really like to see ore accumulation bottlenecked by electricity income when drilling vessels aren't loaded into physics, if it isn't already.

Issue number 2 has been discussed a lot... I think the maximum amount of science you can get per year should be set to something like 1000 science or something, and then the rates are just calculated to satisfy this requirement. From my spreadsheet calculations, if you start with 500 data, and a level5 scientist converts 0.06% of all total remaining data that day to science at a rate of 5 science per data, then it would take 1 year to generate 1000 science. So the ONLY 2 numbers that we need to agree on are, science per data, and percentage per day (for a level5 scientist), and of course a few other details. I suggest that the maximum for these 2 numbers respectively be 500 and 0.06%, and maybe level0 scientists could get something like 0.02 percentage per day, yielding about 200 science starting with 500 data over the course of a year. Putting the numbers like that would nerf the MPL to the point that you couldn't abuse it, but if you really tried to have a bunch of them going and really tried to max out your science yield, only then would you get some tasty science.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bug_

[Grumman]

This is a terrible idea. The game does not need more tedious grinding before we're allowed to play with our toys. Most people do not have level 5 Scientists and we should not need to get them and then wait a year just to unlock one node at the end of the tech tree.

[Bug_]

I do not think it is a terrible idea. This would encourage you to set up a research lab anywhere you could. You'd want one orbiting kerbin, landed on kerbin, orbiting the mun, landed on mun, maybe even a couple per planet/moon. The amount of science you would be able to get by setting up a dozen of these labs, with the current rates, would be utterly ridiculous and you'd just be drowning in science, to the point you wouldn't have any use for it. You would convert it to funds and reputation, but soon you'd be completely swamped in both of those resources too.

If you are concerned about tedious grinding before getting the higher tech, then sandbox mode is the one you want. To me, career mode on hard mode means it's not easy to abuse the MPL's return rate.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Bug_

[Tankman101]

If you are concerned about tedious grinding before getting the higher tech, then sandbox mode is the one you want.

Work != Tedium. Tedium is when the amount of busywork becomes disproportionate to the amount of gain you get from it. Telling people to abandon all progression because something is tedious is pants-on-head stupid.

[Joonatan1998]

Nerfing the rate doesn't reallly make it any less OP.

Time has no meaning unless you have active contracts/ships in transit.

It just makes it a bit more annoying.

[Bug_]

Work != Tedium. Tedium is when the amount of busywork becomes disproportionate to the amount of gain you get from it. Telling people to abandon all progression because something is tedious is pants-on-head stupid.

I'm not really sure exactly what you are saying... but I don't think you read the point I'm making in the OP. I'm suggesting to nerf the rate at which the MPL can generate science.

- - - Updated - - -

Nerfing the rate doesn't reallly make it any less OP.

Time has no meaning unless you have active contracts/ships in transit.

It just makes it a bit more annoying.

The way contracts work, you have to keep shopping around and checking back with mission control every so often. If you don't accept a contract in the 2 or 3 day deadline, then you don't get it and miss out on the potential to get a reward. Therefore, time is a resource, at all times in career mode.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Insufficient charge problem is deeper than you describe it. For example, my Minmus Research Station doesn't have enough battery capacity to research for the length of the orbital night. It's pretty hard to account for everything, including this.

Second, what measure is an abuse? Back in my first Science playthrough I did this mission to Minmus. A spacelab, a lander and some surplus fuel. The difference is now you don't need to bring the lab to do so... So, with Ye Olde biome hopping you can get carpton of science faster than with lab. In my current career save I have labs in orbits of Mun, Minmus, Duna and Gilly (last two are just interplanetary ships) and while I have quite a lot of science, If I just did biome hopping at Mun and Minmus, I would have no less than that faster. And the science is not a limiting factor. There's some ludicrous requirements for R&D upgrade, so I want more money before I can even use all that science.

[Alshain]

The way contracts work, you have to keep shopping around and checking back with mission control every so often. If you don't accept a contract in the 2 or 3 day deadline, then you don't get it and miss out on the potential to get a reward. Therefore, time is a resource, at all times in career mode.

Contracts come endlessly. If you miss one, another will replace it. When I'm time warping a ship out to Duna, I don't jump back to the KSC every 3 days to look at the contracts. Time has no meaning in KSP.

If you are concerned about tedious grinding before getting the higher tech, then sandbox mode is the one you want. To me, career mode on hard mode means it's not easy to abuse the MPL's return rate.

This can be easily reversed. If you think the MPL is OP then you don't have to use it, problem solved, no development efforts needed.

The MPL is perfectly fine how it is. It is doing the job the change was meant to do.

[KSK]

I agree with Alshain. The MPL is fine, it provides a different way to earn science points than grinding Minmus missions and using it is entirely optional. If you feel it's game breaking then don't use it. Or use it for aesthetic purposes but don't bother loading it with data.

Also, there's more to Career mode than science grinding. I don't see completing the tech tree as being the end of a Career game.

[Bug_]

My concern initially was, if I had to do a 2 year maneuver that the MPL would just give me the whole tech tree, making 2 year maneuvers not that fun because you end up unlocking the whole tech tree... but this seems to not be the case as I play through. The more mircomanagement you do for the MPL the more science you get but if you just ignore micro and go for macro since microing them perfectly would be a bit tedious, they seem to give a fair amount of science.