WW2 BAD-T - World War 2 BDArmory AI Dogfight Tournament [FINISHED]

[worir4]

Aww, i don't think mine even fired a single shot. It took too long to take off.

[Wjolcz]

I wonder what made them take off for such a long time. A design flaw or rather AI error?

It's really fun to watch. Waiting for the tournament to restart with new crafts and all that.

EDIT: Why so many people decide to make their designs cockpit-less?

Edited August 25, 2015 by Veeltch

[Littlerift]

I wonder what made them take off for such a long time. A design flaw or rather AI error?

It's really fun to watch. Waiting for the tournament to restart with new crafts and all that.

EDIT: Why so many people decide to make their designs cockpit-less?

It's quite easy to make an open cockpit that is lighter than the stock one, and given how a lot of battles are dictated by TWR that's a big deal.

[tetryds]

EDIT: Why so many people decide to make their designs cockpit-less?

Because even though they have more drag, they are much lighter.

It's a direct trade off between speed for acceleration.

[Wjolcz]

Because even though they have more drag, they are much lighter.

It's a direct trade off between speed for acceleration.

Oh, alright. So there is no mass limit in the challenge, right? You have to work it out yourself based on what engine is allowed for what class?

[tetryds]

Oh, alright. So there is no mass limit in the challenge, right? You have to work it out yourself based on what engine is allowed for what class?

Pretty much.

The next version may have a lower limit for weight though, but I am not sure yet.

That is because if your craft is too light the aerodynamic effects will be too strong, and the engines and weapons already add a considerable amount of mass.

Edit:

Update, you can now follow the challenge at http://challonge.com/BADT

Much better than the previous scoreboard system.

Also, seeing so many brackets scared me, I am thinking about going for a best out of three at least for this first round and for the losers bracket.

Edited August 25, 2015 by tetryds

[Phearlock]

It does take a while to set up fights, yeah. And to think that you originally wanted to do three different brackets!

Still lots of craft I haven't seen fly yet, pretty excited!

And I haven't seen any designs that try to capitalize on the AI's flight style in the same way I tried to do with the KF-Spike 5, so I'm excited to see if any of the competition went for a similar approach.

[tetryds]

It does take a while to set up fights, yeah. And to think that you originally wanted to do three different brackets!

Still lots of craft I haven't seen fly yet, pretty excited!

And I haven't seen any designs that try to capitalize on the AI's flight style in the same way I tried to do with the KF-Spike 5, so I'm excited to see if any of the competition went for a similar approach.

Well, once a battle is set, running it multiple times is not a problem.

I am mostly worried about the time the matches take, if all of them were as short as 8 minutes or less it would be a lot simpler to run them, and also to add music

[Wjolcz]

I have a question about the weapon modpack. When I try to activate the guns it just says there are none. Am I doing something wrong? Maybe using the wrong ammo since there are two types of 20mm?

[tetryds]

I have a question about the weapon modpack. When I try to activate the guns it just says there are none. Am I doing something wrong? Maybe using the wrong ammo since there are two types of 20mm?

You are using the latest version of BDArmory, which is incompatible.

The pack was made to work with BDArmory 0.8.3 and was not yet updated.

[Wjolcz]

You are using the latest version of BDArmory, which is incompatible.

The pack was made to work with BDArmory 0.8.3 and was not yet updated.

So it's useless deadweight for now. But that's fine. It's still useful to fine tune the CoM placement and other stuff.

Also another question (since you said you would be givibg FAR advices): my design seems to be slightly wobbly when conrroled by AI, but it's perfectly fine when controlled manually. Seems like it's caused by SAS. Any way to disable it, or do I have to rethink my design in such a way it won't do that anymore?

Edit: Okay, nevermind. It's been answered on the first page of the thread. Will try it tomorrow.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Veeltch

[Littlerift]

So it's useless deadweight for now. But that's fine. It's still useful to fine tune the CoM placement and other stuff.

Also another question (since you said you would be givibg FAR advices): my design seems to be slightly wobbly when conrroled by AI, but it's perfectly fine when controlled manually. Seems like it's caused by SAS. Any way to disable it, or do I have to rethink my design in such a way it won't do that anymore?

Edit: Okay, nevermind. It's been answered on the first page of the thread. Will try it tomorrow.

Which axis is it wobbling in? I've found that having AI freaks out if it has a lot of aileron control, maybe that's the issue.

[Wjolcz]

Which axis is it wobbling in? I've found that having AI freaks out if it has a lot of aileron control, maybe that's the issue.

Seemed to me like mainly the pitch was affecting the wobbliness, but havent did much to roll so it might also be that. Seems like the roll control is on the suspects list now.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Veeltch

[TUKE]

I find the AI flies well with very little elevator control. As it can't stall the plane.

[Littlerift]

I find the AI flies well with very little elevator control. As it can't stall the plane.

The AI can certainly stall the wings if your elevator deflection is too high, and if it's sky climbing and runs out of speed I've had it flat spin before now.

[Phearlock]

Yeah I do think the Spike has a bit too much roll authority for the AI to handle normally, but it's stable enough that it doesn't matter too much. And handily, it maintains control authority all the way down to about 60m/s, which is about when the aerosports have enough thrust to give the aircraft a TWR > 1. So it's very hard for the AI to depart the aircraft despite it being inclined to pull quite a bit of AoA from the big stabilators on the tail.

[tetryds]

New battle is out.

Ok, this one was very disappointing, I don't really recommend watching.

Basically the Piston Monoplane lost twice because it ran out of fuel.

I should make a validation pass on some airplanes, the Piston Monoplane had to be modified to even be able to steer, it only didn't get disqualified now because its too late for that.

When the video is ready you can find it here: http://youtu.be/h2QGPe0jRDU

[Littlerift]

Whelp, the new release of FAR seems to make B9 wings weigh less. I can't quite work out how, but all my designs are now a good amount light and it's completely thrown of their balance. Sigh. Back to testing.

[tetryds]

Whelp, the new release of FAR seems to make B9 wings weigh less. I can't quite work out how, but all my designs are now a good amount light and it's completely thrown of their balance. Sigh. Back to testing.

Yes, some stuff changed, and since stock wings are generating more lift I am considering setting b9 pwings as a requirement, for fairness.

Anyone against this?

Also, soon all bad airplanes will be eliminated, and we will have good airplanes fighting against each other.

Expect to see much nicer combats then.

The four battles on the losers bracket may be packed on a single video, so that what happened on the last battle does not happen again.

Until Round 2 starts, they will be best of 3 matches, esp. since the results would be exactly the same if I had done that since the beginning.

And will continue to be best of three on the losers bracket, but on the main one they will go back to being best of five.

You can already start making bets, if this becomes a thing I can even add a scoreboard for that

Edited August 29, 2015 by tetryds

[Wjolcz]

Yes, some stuff changed, and since stock wings are generating way too much lift I am considering setting b9 pwings as a requirement, for fairness.

Anyone against this?

I'm fine with that.

[REDACTED]

Is it possible in FAR to make Horten 229-like yaw system? If so, how? An I mean with B9 Pwings, not stock airbrakes.

EDIT: I figured it out. You need to set a control surface as "Spoiler" and set Yaw value for it.

EDIT 2: Nope. Still haven't figured it out. Help much appreciated.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Veeltch

[Phearlock]

Do we have to test individually if our old planes still fly the same in the new FAR version and apply changes individually, or are all battles still going to be on version 15.1 we submitted them for?

Edit: I'm not making any bets until I've seen all the combatants =)

Edited August 29, 2015 by Phearlock

[tetryds]

I'm fine with that.

[REDACTED]

Is it possible in FAR to make Horten 229-like yaw system? If so, how? An I mean with B9 Pwings, not stock airbrakes.

EDIT: I figured it out. You need to set a control surface as "Spoiler" and set Yaw value for it.

EDIT 2: Nope. Still haven't figured it out. Help much appreciated.

The latest version of FAR allows you to use drag rudders!

It's that awesome.

I don't remember how to set it, will edit this as soon as I do, but shouldn't be hard.

@Phearlock: the battles are happening on the version you submitted them for.

I will update everything on a single huge pack which will include the latest FAR, latest BDArmory with it's AI, and my WW2 weapons pack.

Some rules will also be revised.

The new weapons pack will have a lot of guns, all of them will be balanced and allowed on this challenge.

I may also allow more guns and will poke BahamutoD to make the airplanes use multiple weapons.

Will also see if it's easy to set my own tab on the editor, to make them easier to find, but don't count on that.

Yes that is a 40mm cannon.

[Wjolcz]

The latest version of FAR allows you to use drag rudders!

It's that awesome.

I don't remember how to set it, will edit this as soon as I do, but shouldn't be hard.

@Phearlock: the battles are happening on the version you submitted them for.

I will update everything on a single huge pack which will include the latest FAR, latest BDArmory with it's AI, and my WW2 weapons pack.

Some rules will also be revised.

The new weapons pack will have a lot of guns, all of them will be balanced and allowed on this challenge.

I may also allow more guns and will poke BahamutoD to make the airplanes use multiple weapons.

Will also see if it's easy to set my own tab on the editor, to make them easier to find, but don't count on that.

http://i.imgur.com/dqmNuyw.png

Yes that is a 40mm cannon.

Alright, got it. It's just the DragRudder value. I'm an idiot *facepalm*

Also those guns are looking sweeeeeeeeeeeet!

Edited August 29, 2015 by Veeltch
Drag rubbers, not brake rudders

[tetryds]

Alright, got it. It's just the BrakeRudder value. I'm an idiot *facepalm*

Also those guns are looking sweeeeeeeeeeeet!

Did I mention that I am considering using AJE and allowing heavy fighters?

Did I also mention that depending on how well 1.1 performs on my desktop I am also planning on having events with up to 4 vs 4 battles?

And that some of these battles may consist of two fighters and one heavy fighter per side (can be built by different players) and run on custom kerbal konstructs battlegrounds?

Finally, that I plan to pull the graphics settings through the roof and give at least some love to every video?

Well, now I did.

[Littlerift]

The latest version of FAR allows you to use drag rudders!

It's that awesome.

I don't remember how to set it, will edit this as soon as I do, but shouldn't be hard.

@Phearlock: the battles are happening on the version you submitted them for.

I will update everything on a single huge pack which will include the latest FAR, latest BDArmory with it's AI, and my WW2 weapons pack.

Some rules will also be revised.

The new weapons pack will have a lot of guns, all of them will be balanced and allowed on this challenge.

I may also allow more guns and will poke BahamutoD to make the airplanes use multiple weapons.

Will also see if it's easy to set my own tab on the editor, to make them easier to find, but don't count on that.

http://i.imgur.com/dqmNuyw.png

Yes that is a 40mm cannon.

A 40mm cannon, you say...

The guns look brilliant man, and if you could get BDArmory AI to use multiple weapons that would be amazing!