Please do something nice for VTOLs

[BlueCanary]

It seems like with each successive update, the ability to build jet powered VTOls is being slowly forced out of the game. In 0.90, you could slap a couple of upside down basic jets on and lift pretty much anything off the ground. With 1.0 it became a challenge to lower weight, but still doable with the ability to create a practical craft. Then came 1.0.3 and boom, VTOl's became bricks. The basic jet is so heavily nerfed it's impractical for all but the smallest and lightest craft, and the ISP changes halved hovering time. Turbojets work better but the drag from a vertical turbojet in forward flight is hard to overcome. Even the new exhaust/ground interaction particle effects serve to make the fps drop when flying VTOls low to the ground almost unbearable.

I know that the huge TWR of the 0.90 basic jets was hugely unrealistic, but they've now been nerfed to the point of being pretty much useless for everything but early career and occasional small, slow craft. And without helicopter parts or anything else to allow vertical flight, they were the only real way to get the capabilities only a vertical takeoff craft can provide. I know I'm not the only one feeling the impact of the 1.0.3 changes, and I'm wondering what other people think should be done, if anything, to get some kind of practical vertical flight back into KSP.

[Wjolcz]

I'd like to see a Mk2 piece similar to F-35's lift fan.

[Jouni]

The TWR of the basic jet engine is about right. It's comparable to the engines used in modern airliners, as well as to the Pegasus engine used in the Harrier. Rotating nozzles could be handy, but more powerful jet engines would just be too ridiculous.

VTOL jets don't work too well in the real world. They always have to sacrifice range and/or payload capacity, because the TWR of jet engines is so low.

[Stoney3K]

The biggest issue with jet-only VTOLs in KSP is that they are too sluggish in their response if you want to keep attitude.

The only way to fix this is use RCS, which is a very heavy and fuel-expensive option. Jet RCS nozzles would really solve that problem to begin with, so you can get away with a single engine in the middle and just keep is straight with RCS/SAS.

[DuoDex]

You guys might find Quiztech Aerospace to your liking.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/111691-WIP-1-0-2-QuizTech-Aero-Pack-v1-2-8-x-Updated-6-9-15-New-Mk2-Service-Bay-and-Small-Tanks%21%21