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Post 1.0 - Lightest sea level* Eve ascent challenge

KerikBalm
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astrobond

astrobond

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What is the problem with ladders? Just add a couple of raidial decouplers with laders on and detach on lauch just like air brakes and chutes.

Hi Nefrums :)

Yes, i added Laders on existing decouplers and that's ok :)

(just a little spinning in de-orbit)

New problems testing aerobreaking, i had to add a 1.25m shield in place of the MK1 can to avoid exploding xD

I'll send new pics and craft tonight.

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Nich

Nich

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Nef on your assent did you try an aero turn rather then a traditional gravity turn? I was wondering if straight up to 30-40km then aero turn and lifted acceleration out would be more efficient?

Edited by Nich
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astrobond

astrobond

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An effort from me at 34.112t and not a wing in sight!...

I forgot the ladders, so you could add a couple of kg for them and separators if being fussy.

OMG !!! Congrat's Foxster :)

Less than 35t. even with ladders added... xD

You inverted/cliped stock cones ?

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Foxster

Foxster

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You inverted/clipped stock cones ?
Yup, just swung 'em around. Seems to reduce the drag a bit. Dunno why.

It's odd but I was taking away more and more fuel and it was using less and less dV to orbit due to the increase in TWR. I'm not sure I have got it as light as it could be and I didn't really optimise the flight to orbit. I have a feeling there is something even smaller possible with higher TWR - maybe even an SSTO???!!!

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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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I just managed an ascent from into a 647.57 km x 100.70 km orbit, with 127 m/s to spare in the tank (obviously, a lot to optimize here, and I knew I had it made and didn't chase apoapsis).

Mass was 44.44 kg, but I still need to add ladders and check if it survives reentry.

I used hyperedits land to put me 500 over the ground, and it lands without falling apart just fine.

Ascent was from 60 meters.

I've got hyper edit, and now I think maybe I should specify some coordinates to start from, FWI, I started from longitude 229.9752826 lattitude 0.0001707

What say you that have posted so far? should the challenge be modified so that 100 m is the limit, with future entries encouraged to launch from the same location?

I'm thinking.... must demonstrate a safe reentry to chute deployment speeds (anywhere on the planet).

Then use hyperedit with those coordinates and an altitude of at least 500 to demonstrate safe landing and then launch to orbit.

I'm going to bed, but I hope to have a better ascent tomorrow, with ladders and pics. and a safe reentry to make it a valid entry.

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astrobond

astrobond

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Ok cool Foxster ! A new stock improvment ^^

Yes high twr seem's to be the key to efficient lifters on Eve...

Someone else to test light high twr + wings ? lol i hope there will be others good surprises :)

But tonight, you win !

KerikBalm, it's up to you to precise the rules of your challenge, but i think it is good as is :)

I just wanted to test my last ship from as low level as possible, and i think that a ship who can start from sea level can easily add a little burn at 8000m to help the chute to slow down and land safely, and keep enough dV to go orbit from 8000m :)

(but i'll try that with my ship to be sure)

Good night ;)

Edited by astrobond
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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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I took your design for inspiration, but I made the asparagus stages different sizes, to keep TWR up in later stages (first stage burns longer, 2nd and 3rd stages burn shorter), and was able to make do with basically your design - a FL-T200 worth of fuel.

I also moved some fuel to drop tanks for the first stage that go with the legs (FL-T200s, so the legs arent carried up very far).

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Foxster

Foxster

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I just managed an ascent from into a 647.57 km x 100.70 km orbit, with 127 m/s to spare in the tank (obviously, a lot to optimize here, and I knew I had it made and didn't chase apoapsis).

Mass was 44.44 kg, but I still need to add ladders and check if it survives reentry.

I used hyperedits land to put me 500 over the ground, and it lands without falling apart just fine.

Ascent was from 60 meters.

I've got hyper edit, and now I think maybe I should specify some coordinates to start from, FWI, I started from longitude 229.9752826 lattitude 0.0001707

What say you that have posted so far? should the challenge be modified so that 100 m is the limit, with future entries encouraged to launch from the same location?

I'm thinking.... must demonstrate a safe reentry to chute deployment speeds (anywhere on the planet).

Then use hyperedit with those coordinates and an altitude of at least 500 to demonstrate safe landing and then launch to orbit.

I'm going to bed, but I hope to have a better ascent tomorrow, with ladders and pics. and a safe reentry to make it a valid entry.

Good plan. A couple of tweaks maybe?...

1. Must be able to survive re-entry from a 100km orbit and land anywhere on land. This shows the craft can survive re-entry and landing.

2. Use HE to move the craft to a common location. I suggest HE coordinates Lat 25, Lon 158.5 because it's fairly level and just under 1000m, which was the challenge's original requirement.

3. Launch to an orbit with a PE of >90km.

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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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Well, I think it shouldn't have to be a 100km circular orbit. I'll allow any start that is:

#1) outside the atmosphere

#2) has a PE above the ground

- So if someone wants to shuttle kerbals to/from the surface of Eve, they can have a reusable tug (with a claw), to put the the lander & ascent vehicles from these entries into a suborbital trajectory.

I wouldn't want to start counting reusable things in the mass balance

I do think two catagories are warranted. I initially specified 1000m, because I didn't want to require any mods, and deorbiting to be right next to the liquid can be frustrating, so I gave a lot of leeway.

So now, a <100m catagory, and a <1000m catagory.

I will even add a 3rd.... design your craft to surviv water landings, and launch from the water.

Now... off to document my 60m ascent at just over 44 tons.

Done:

http://imgur.com/a/EZI7X#0

My ascent wasn't as efficient, and I added non-required solar panels (thinking I should have put them on the drop tanks, so I could top off electric charge, 50 is enough for the final stages of ascent when the engine has no alternator)

Ended up with over 100 m/s left, instead of ~500... oh well

Edited by KerikBalm
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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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FWIW, I went back and tested the pod and can and cockpits... the lander can with a cone is terrible.

For all of them, I did pod/can/cockpit -> FL-T400 tank -> LV-T30.

Then I looked at the maximim apopasis.

The Mk1 cockpit did pretty good, but the mk1 pod with a nosecone did better.

The mk1 landercan with a cone... had too much drag and not enough torque, it always flipped over....

Not a fully quantitative test, but enough to see the mk1 can is no good.

I should have done that test before sending my lander to orbit in my career game.

Oh well, its twice as heavy as it needs to be, but the cost is sunk.

Next I need to develop a probe core design for some Eve tourists :P

Also, I may want to bring non-pilots to eve, and it would be a PITA to do the ascent with no SAS. I'm thinking that replacing the small nose cone with the fly by wire hub should accomplish that with minimal disruption.

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kookoo_gr

kookoo_gr

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question. do i have to send the lander at eve from kerbin or can i hyperedit it to eve orbit? Also how much dV is repuired to eve orbit with 1.0.4? haven't played ksp for a long time and i haven't updated the dv maps i have

Edited by kookoo_gr
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Foxster

Foxster

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question. do i have to send the lander at eve from kerbin or can i hyperedit it to eve orbit? Also how much dV is repuired to eve orbit with 1.0.4? haven't played ksp for a long time and i haven't updated the dv maps i have

You need a minimum of around 7000dV but you will be lucky to get it to orbit at that. Because drag is so high, you will need to come up with a good ascent profile and make your craft as low-drag as possible to make orbit at all.

You can HE it to orbit, I suggest to about 100km.

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KerikBalm

KerikBalm

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Re-usable?

From Eve sea level?

I think you should look in the Eve SSTO limbo thread for that (which reminds me, I need to get back to making my submission for that).

The best entry for a re-usable/single stage vehicle was able to descend to 10.5km and then attain orbit around eve.

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eddiew

eddiew

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And a new version of my Eve 104-10 ship with good cones, less fuel but better twr as Nefrum said... that is a good idea even without wings ^^ 46,7t. and still ok to make an orbit. (43t. at liftoff)

http://imgur.com/a/HBxmi

I like the disposable capsule for exit/entry here... saves a lot of worry about ladders :) Buuut... can you transfer surface samples from the discarded can into the return capsule? (Edit; I read the post under yours like I should have first time. But it's still a cool idea; at least you could get transmissable science done, eva reports and a bit of the surface sample value.)

In general, I'm surprised at how 'small' Eve landers seem to have become :o I might need to have a go at one, having recently gotten my aerospikes :)

Edited by eddiew
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astrobond

astrobond

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I like the disposable capsule for exit/entry here... saves a lot of worry about ladders :) Buuut... can you transfer surface samples from the discarded can into the return capsule? (Edit; I read the post under yours like I should have first time. But it's still a cool idea; at least you could get transmissable science done, eva reports and a bit of the surface sample value.)

In general, I'm surprised at how 'small' Eve landers seem to have become :o I might need to have a go at one, having recently gotten my aerospikes :)

Hi eddiew and thank's for getting a look to my post ;)

Yes i made a new new (and last lol) version with ladders to keep all science !

And for Sirine, I also tried a lot of SSTO planes or rockets from 7500m, but my best try was missing orbit from about 380m/s grrr.... (with almost the same ship as Nefrum best low level Eve SSTO limbo :) )

Fly safe with Val :)

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