Orbital construction

[Nibb31]

If you only have 2 or 3 humans in the loop to occasionally kick the machines if something goes wrong, then you don't need a gigantic pressurized drydock.

[Mazon Del]

Need is perhaps a strong word, but it does end up making a lot of things far more simpler for you. All of those robots, which need to be cooled and such, no longer need to be vacuum rated and can kind of just dump waste heat like any other object instead of needing ridiculously complicated systems for doing so. Working in an atmosphere is just far easier for both man and machine. Cheaper too if you consider how much faster a human could build it in atmosphere than out and how much cheaper those robots get when they don't have to care about vacuum issues.

[Nibb31]

Working in an atmosphere is just far easier for both man and machine. Cheaper too if you consider how much faster a human could build it in atmosphere than out and how much cheaper those robots get when they don't have to care about vacuum issues.

And working on Earth is even easier, cheaper, and faster.

[Mazon Del]

Of course! Except that sending up cargo beyond certain sizes is impractical. If trying to construct full on ships and whatnot, it is far more efficient (and safer) to construct them in orbit. Partly because you don't need to design the craft in question to deal with the G loads and vibration of launch, the components just need to survive that and it is fairly easy to rig up containers that ensure fragile cargo survives the transition. Designing everything to handle the launch in an assembled configuration is a giant pain.

[PB666]

Drydocks would be too complex and expensive. It's more practical to assemble things via direct docking of prefabricated modules, or at the most, berthing with a robotic arm (with two ends that can "inchworm" between grappling points).

Below I made earlier this year, I have since created parts that allow for a completely encloses space factory.

It will take me some time to upload however since I lost somehow the Steam Image gallery. I will look.

Note this was before 1.0, knowing that 1.0 was coming the new design was made aerodynamic. The walls of the factory are actually living quarters and have extra large doors for assembling parts in atm and carrying them to the destination. Since the station is shaped like a bullet it can be rotated on is axis and those in wall will experience small acceleration to help anchor them in their work. I will up load that picture soon.

Edited August 27, 2015 by PB666

[fredinno]

You're far better off getting lower concentrations of voatiles from NEOs and the asteroid belt, where travel times are far lower, than from the outer solar system, where it is higher. You could either use the propellant ISRU'd from these places, or ion drivesto get it back within a year or two.

- - - Updated - - -

I think that in the near term, we should just build (relatively) small drydocks for <1 T satellites for repair, upgrading to <8T satellites as more knoledge is gained. Use reusable ion drive tugs to bring them to a space station. It's probably best to do this with human involvement- that way, the place can double as a space station for basic research. Humans are also far more flexible and efficient at such tasks. Teleoperation is a possiblity, but sattelites are pretty varied. Would it be better to have a robot that can repair various sattelites, and have to bring another robot (or crew) to fix the previpus one every few years compared to having a few astronauts multitask?

Building sattelites is great- as long as you have a 3d printer that can create fully functioning parts and satellites from basic materials on demand. I can see this being great for manned missions and the DOD (much easier to stay up to date on your enemies that way.)

[Nibb31]

I think that in the near term, we should just build (relatively) small drydocks for <1 T satellites for repair, upgrading to <8T satellites as more knoledge is gained. Use reusable ion drive tugs to bring them to a space station. It's probably best to do this with human involvement- that way, the place can double as a space station for basic research. Humans are also far more flexible and efficient at such tasks. Teleoperation is a possiblity, but sattelites are pretty varied. Would it be better to have a robot that can repair various sattelites, and have to bring another robot (or crew) to fix the previpus one every few years compared to having a few astronauts multitask?

Building sattelites is great- as long as you have a 3d printer that can create fully functioning parts and satellites from basic materials on demand. I can see this being great for manned missions and the DOD (much easier to stay up to date on your enemies that way.)

The problem with this plan is that you're limited to satellites that are all in the same inclination as your orbital factory. If you are doing mass production in a single inclination, then the only real application is going to be GSO com sats, which happen to actually be quite similar.

It isn't economical to build a factory if you're not going to be doing mass production. If you'll be doing one offs, they are likely to going to specific orbits, so it's more economical to build them on the ground and launch them where you want them to be. And again, there is no need for for human intervention once your facility is set up for mass production, except for some exceptional repair work.

And remember that there are some components that 3D printers can make, but most of the equipment like electronics, batteries, fluids, seals, filters, solar panels, lubricants, insulation material, etc... will all need to be built and tested on the ground, and then brought up. There is no way that is going to be economical.

[sgt_flyer]

Well, if you put such a factory in a GSO orbit and are able to teleoperate - if you have space tug associated with the factory, why not use it to gather old out of commission satellites and bring them back for disassembly ? (Gathering notably the solar panels, maybe the batteries (if you can restore the materials inside) and the various components. That would give a wide array of already spaceworthy parts and even raw materials (if you have a mean to melt some of the stuff to recreate new components from it.

Now, 3d printers are useful if you are only asked custom jobs if some of the components are common across what you build, a specialised line for building this component would be much more efficient.

[PB666]

The problem with this plan is that you're limited to satellites that are all in the same inclination as your orbital factory. If you are doing mass production in a single inclination, then the only real application is going to be GSO com sats, which happen to actually be quite similar.

It isn't economical to build a factory if you're not going to be doing mass production. If you'll be doing one offs, they are likely to going to specific orbits, so it's more economical to build them on the ground and launch them where you want them to be. And again, there is no need for for human intervention once your facility is set up for mass production, except for some exceptional repair work.

And remember that there are some components that 3D printers can make, but most of the equipment like electronics, batteries, fluids, seals, filters, solar panels, lubricants, insulation material, etc... will all need to be built and tested on the ground, and then brought up. There is no way that is going to be economical.

Hmm, if you are picking up junk from LEO and recycling it in space, then you could use the factory to do all kinds of things, for example to make replacement batteries, to make solar panels, you could even use it to make food from space poop. Anything that could be recycled on the earth could be recycled in space. The solar panels would simply be disassembled and reassembled in arrays made to order. Insulating material would need to be brought from earth, however in orbits about 2400 miles, you could actually use captured asteroids as a source of insulation, space-craft with a hefty cosmic ray shield on their surface.

In terms of things we could dream about doing in space, and might actually accomplish the modern technology, a space factor is one of them. Much more useful and feasible than a martian colony.

[RainDreamer]

Space factories on asteroids/moons sounds good. We would have space to build testing and manufacturing facilities while gather resources in situ, and not having to deal with that pesky atmosphere on launch. Still doesn't require human to be there all the time if we have sophisticated enough automation technology, though.

[PB666]

Space factories on asteroids/moons sounds good. We would have space to build testing and manufacturing facilities while gather resources in situ, and not having to deal with that pesky atmosphere on launch. Still doesn't require human to be there all the time if we have sophisticated enough automation technology, though.

The humans might be used as managers. While my KSP factory did not have a robotic assembly system I can imagine robots stationed on two sets of cables that travel in parallel so that the robot can move within the station and no have to use thrust. Kerbals are expendable and don't mind the occasional spacing, a suit breach for humans would be fatal within seconds and there is no way to get them to a vapor lock soon enough.

The big problem of a space factory is one that no one considers, reforging, it would work will in a centrifugal smelter and for most metals in space is not a problem, but for some metals like steel, you would rapidly lose carbon pressure, and you don't really want to forge steel in a closed space because of the carbon monoxide hazard. Its not a problem for robots working in factories but the air would have to be purged before humans could reoccupy the space. Plastics are another problem, you cannot mine the raw materials for plastic, they have to be synthesized from things like acylates, cyclic compounds, and alkynes or alkenes. All most all of the starting materials would come from inefficient plant biosynthesis.

[fredinno]

The problem with this plan is that you're limited to satellites that are all in the same inclination as your orbital factory. If you are doing mass production in a single inclination, then the only real application is going to be GSO com sats, which happen to actually be quite similar.

It isn't economical to build a factory if you're not going to be doing mass production. If you'll be doing one offs, they are likely to going to specific orbits, so it's more economical to build them on the ground and launch them where you want them to be. And again, there is no need for for human intervention once your facility is set up for mass production, except for some exceptional repair work.

And remember that there are some components that 3D printers can make, but most of the equipment like electronics, batteries, fluids, seals, filters, solar panels, lubricants, insulation material, etc... will all need to be built and tested on the ground, and then brought up. There is no way that is going to be economical.

I said if you have a 3d printer capable of doing that. Currently, that's a while off.

A space station in roughly equilateral LEO could get satellites from MEO (GPS Satellites) GEO/GSO, and LEO (from similar inclination) (and possibly lunar orbital probes?)

Another, smaller one could be made for in Polar LEO for Polar LEO/Polar SSO satellites- though the larger DOD spy satellites will probably be too big to fix in a drydock initially. This should catch most of the Earth orbital satellites. Obviously, there is extra expense in doing so, so I think we should concentrate on MEO/ GEO/ GSO/ Equilateral LEO satellites with a roughly-equilateral station. Of course, we would need a reusable space tug, but it's within the realm of current technology (as long as you can find a way to refuel a xenon tank in space).

[Nibb31]

We hardly ever use equatorial (not equilateral) orbits in real life, except for GEO sats, because higher inclinations provide better coverage for ground observation. Equatorial orbits are also difficult to reach, unless your launch site is exactly on the equator.

The Moon also isn't on the equatorial plane, and neither are GPS sats. Real life isn't KSP.