Mission to Uranus and Neptune!

[Frida Space]

If you've been following OPAG, scientists have asked NASA (which in turn has asked JPL) to start preliminary studies of a Uranus/Neptune mission. One of the most convincing concepts so far is a dual, 4 bln dollar mission consisting of two separate orbiters. As this is a Flagship mission, to see serious progress we will have to wait until Mars 2020 and the Europa Mission are launched, but I'm seeing a lot of confidence this time round in the scientific community. The 2011 Decadal Survery already indicated Mars, Europa and Uranus as top destinations... well, the first two are happening, finally! With those two out, it seems likely that Uranus (and/or Neptune) will be elected as top priority destination in the next Decadal Survey, as in the years following the last Survey we have just found more and more reasons to explore Uranus and Neptune (compare them with Juno and Cassini data on Jupiter and Saturn, compare Triton to New Horizons' Pluto and KBOs, etc.). Jim Green said such a mission would launch at the end of the 2020s or at the beginning of the 2030s. I'm guessing it will have an approx. 10 year transfer, unless it launches on an SLS - which actually seems likely, as it would give the rocket-to-nowhere at least another launch, and a huge one too.

I've been following OPAG live, but in case you want further information so far I found these two articles:

http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/08/25/uranus-neptune-in-nasas-sights-for-new-robotic-mission/

http://futureplanets.blogspot.ca/2015/08/outer-planet-news.html

I know I shouldn't be excited because, even if this mission gets all green lights, it will start returning data no earlier than the mid 2030s-2040s, but still, I can't wait!

[Findthepin1]

finally

[HoloYolo]

Uranus? Sounds very nice...

[Frida Space]

On a relatively unrelated note, it's sad to see that the outer solar system will remain unexplored for possibly as much as 17 years! That's actually unbelievably sad, now that I think about it.

2004-2017 Cassini

2016-2017 Juno

2030-2033 JUICE

2030s Europa Mission

[_Augustus_]

On a relatively unrelated note, it's sad to see that the outer solar system will remain unexplored for possibly as much as 17 years! That's actually unbelievably sad, now that I think about it.

2004-2017 Cassini

2016-2017 Juno

2030-2033 JUICE

2030s Europa Mission

The Europa mission launches in 2025...

[MinimumSky5]

The Europa mission launches in 2025...

It takes time to get to jupiter, 2030 is the start of the science mission. Frida Space, the reason that the outer sold system isn't well explorered is that it not only takes a while to get there, it also takes a powerful LV.

[Frida Space]

The Europa mission launches in 2025...

It launches in the "2020s". Could be as soon as 2022 (unlikely) or much later. But yes, as @MinimumSky5 said, the dates I wrote were for the science mission, not considering the cruise phase.

Frida Space, the reason that the outer sold system isn't well explorered is that it not only takes a while to get there, it also takes a powerful LV.

Very true (and sad!)

[Sharkman Briton]

Are they gonna explore Uranus? Not the first time thats happened...

[ChrisSpace]

Is there anything out at Uranus and Neptune that we don't have any closer?

[Streetwind]

A planet rotating perpendicular to the plane of the solar system, for starters.

Also, Uranus and Neptune are "ice giants", with a composition different from that of Jupiter and Saturn.

Neptune is of high interest due to the way it goes bowling with small bodies in the outer solar system. Few bodies have had as much influence on the shape of our solar system as Neptune has.

[MinimumSky5]

Uranus also has a magnetic field that is generated in its mantle, rather than its core, and so the magnetic field is offset be half a planetary radius from the core. Its exosphere is extremely odd, it that it acts more like the suns corona than the other gas giants atmospheres. Uranus also has no internal heat engine, unlike the other planets.

[Frida Space]

How do you not want to know what happened to this small guy??

On a *more* serious note, aside from the fact that Uranus and Neptune are very different from Jupiter and Saturn (that's why they are classified as ice giants and not (only) as gas giants) and that we are finding a lot of ice giants in other solar systems, I'd go there just to see the moons up close. Aside from Miranda, there are so many things to discover. Proteus has a 20 km mountain! Plus, Triton! And a Cassini-like orbiter would find so many more wonders...

[_Augustus_]

It launches in the "2020s". Could be as soon as 2022 (unlikely) or much later. But yes, as @MinimumSky5 said, the dates I wrote were for the science mission, not considering the cruise phase.

Very true (and sad!)

They said between 2021 and 2025, and they might use an SLS. If they use an SLS it'll get there before 2028, and they need missions for the SLS..

[Bill Phil]

Is there anything out at Uranus and Neptune that we don't have any closer?

The possibility of a huge amount of Trojan asteroids. And a eetrograde orbit moon, and weird stuff that I forgot.

[Rune]

Why? Because we know precious little about something that is like, the other half of the solar system. The stuff we don't yet know that would amaze us must be incredible! I mean, from the little we know from the Voyager flybys (yup, only probe to these parts) and telescopes there is already pretty amazing stuff like people mention.

Personally, I'm glad this mission gets talked about. I would be even more glad if in the end something ends up happening. If we get two Cassini-like flagships, one to each ice giant system, I'll be ecstatic. If any politician needs convincing, we could always sell them as payload for SLS, right? If that is still eating pork by then, that is...

Rune. Long way to go yet!

[Frida Space]

If we get two Cassini-like flagships, one to each ice giant system, I'll be ecstatic. If any politician needs convincing, we could always sell them as payload for SLS, right?

That's exactly what I was thinking... and even if for whatever reason we didn't find Uranus and Neptune appealing, I'm sure two Cassini-like missions would end up discovering so many unforeseen things that we would have to say "yea, we took the right decision by approving these missions".

Plus, with Cassini and (especially) with Juno we are really focusing on fully understanding the origin of the solar system... without studying up close Uranus and Neptune we will be missing a huge part of the puzzle. The two ice giants, with their migrations and stuff, shaped all of the outer-outer solar system (KBOs and maybe even comets)... Maybe they even helped comets and asteroids hit Earth and bring water, organic molecules etc. And this is just one road... there are so many discoveries to be made!

[Kryten]

If we get two Cassini-like flagships, one to each ice giant system, I'll be ecstatic.

I won't. A second mission to a similar destination isn't worth eating up a few Discovery or New Frontiers missions that would do new kinds of science at new targets; that's why not many people outside of Congress wanted Stern's New Horizons 2.

[Frida Space]

I won't. A second mission to a similar destination isn't worth eating up a few Discovery or New Frontiers missions that would do new kinds of science at new targets

This will be a Flasghip mission, it won't affect the Discovery and New Frontiers programs. If NASA sees it doesn't have enough money for two orbiters, then it will go for just one. Plus, calling Neptune and Uranus similar is like calling Jupiter and Saturn similar.

[MinimumSky5]

Because, after Spirit and Opportunity, there was no reason for NASA to send a rover to Mars again.

[PakledHostage]

That's exactly what I was thinking... and even if for whatever reason we didn't find Uranus and Neptune appealing, I'm sure two Cassini-like missions would end up discovering so many unforeseen things that we would have to say "yea, we took the right decision by approving these missions".

[Kryten]

This will be a Flasghip mission, it won't affect the Discovery and New Frontiers programs.

It will if NASA is congresionally forced to fly these missions and has to take budget from elsewhere, which is exactly what you were cheering for in your comments about SLS. If the planetary science community really thinks there's enough unique data to justify two flagship missions it'll show up in the next decadal survey; this kind of meddling doesn't help.

[Frida Space]

I am also excited at the prospect of missions to Uranus and Neptune for the purely selfish reason that my wife and I named our daughter after one of their moon's.

I hope you named her Sycorax. On a serious note, that's really awesome! Congrats to you and your wife.

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It will if NASA is congresionally forced to fly these missions and has to take budget from elsewhere, which is exactly what you were cheering for in your comments about SLS.

What do you mean by that? I just said that they should use the SLS to launch the Uranus-Neptune mission(s). How is that taking money away from planetary missions? And, just to be clear, I love planetary science and if it were for me I'd approve every single mission But even then, where else should we go? Uranus and Neptune are the less known big things in the solar system. Sure, Io and Titan are interesting, but there's not many more.

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If the planetary science community really thinks there's enough unique data to justify two flagship missions it'll show up in the next decadal survey;

Now that's what I said. I said that in 2011 the Decadal Survey prioritized Mars, Europa and Uranus. The first two are currently underway. Jim Green himself said that he's "sure the Uranus-Neptune Mission will survive the next Decadal Survey". I never mentioned "Congress forcing NASA to explore the ice giants". I said the scientific community wants that.

[mellojoe]

If New Horizons has taught us anything, its how little we actually know.

[AngelLestat]

I have to agree. There will certainly be a vast amount of scientific data returned and we'll also learn a lot from the engineering challenges that we overcome in the process. I am also excited at the prospect of missions to Uranus and Neptune for the purely selfish reason that my wife and I named our daughter after one of their moon's. It is odd to think that she'll be an adult before these missions start returning images but at least she probably won't have to wait until her own kids are grown.

Miranda? Ariel?

My name is Ariel, but not sure if I want a mission to uranus or neptune..

They take long time to arrive, they need some extra deltav, the energy that reach those planets is very low which reduce its activity, by activity I mean things that might caught our attention.

They always try to do all at once and they end doing nothing.

They should focus in the key missions for our solar system.

We need a manned mission (venus or mars) to inspire the world.

They need to explore Titan's atmosphere and its methane lakes (which are easy to reach), maybe a dynamic buoyancy ballon for saturn or jupiter atmospheres too.

After that a harder mission will be an ice melting prove to deploy a submarine in Europa and Enceladus.

If those missions are planned with efficiency in mind under a limit of developing time, without wait until have 99% certainty looking more for redundancy and using edge technology. Then we can accomplish huge science goals at minimun time/cost.

[Kryten]

What do you mean by that? I just said that they should use the SLS to launch the Uranus-Neptune mission(s). How is that taking money away from planetary missions? And, just to be clear, I love planetary science and if it were for me I'd approve every single mission But even then, where else should we go? Uranus and Neptune are the less known big things in the solar system. Sure, Io and Titan are interesting, but there's not many more.

If you want to know what else there is, look at this years Discovery proposals and the New Frontiers candidates, given that's the point of them. There's also MSR, which this would be in direct competition with and is what Mars scientist have been asking for for the past 40 years.

Now that's what I said. I said that in 2011 the Decadal Survey prioritized Mars, Europa and Uranus. The first two are currently underway. Jim Green himself said that he's "sure the Uranus-Neptune Mission will survive the next Decadal Survey". I never mentioned "Congress forcing NASA to explore the ice giants". I said the scientific community wants that.

The Decadal Survey prioritised Mars, Europa and Uranus for Flagship-class missions, but it repeatedly recommended downscoping or delaying those missions if they could not be done without affecting the smaller missions.

EDIT: In fact, the Survey gave a priority list for things that should be added if they managed to get funding beyond that needed for the ice giant mission;

1. An increase in funding for the Discovery program,

2. Another New Frontiers mission, and

3. Either the Enceladus Orbiter mission or the Venus Climate Mission

another flagship is the lowest priority, and even then it's one to a different class of target.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Kryten