Who would want a larger Ion?(This one bugs me in designing my Ion ships!)

[passinglurker]

Realism is still more important than gameplay.

Debateable

Ion engines belong, but with lower(on rails) thrust

But this here is alright as long as it clear that whether it's a hyper edit type or an on rails thrust type solution we are still stuck with what's practical and convenient for gameplay until such a solution is produced.

[Jouni]

Making a cluster increases propellant flow, making a larger engine increases exhaust velocity.

Why ion engines are different from all other kinds of engines in this respect? Why a large rocket engine can have a higher propellant flow rate than a small engine, but the same isn't possible with ion engines?

[CaptainTurbomuffin]

Definiely no. An ION engine wich is as strong as a nuke... The point in ION engines is that you can get incredible efficiency from consumed fuel, but it has a wery low TWR, due to the need of large, heavy solar panels, and due to the low thrust. So you are incredibly efficint, but you have to wait for ages for any burn to complete. A such ION engine you desire should be at least size 2 or 3, and it should have lower stats(maybe not TWR, definitely not, but ISP, requied electricity, ect.). I don't know why, but using size1 stuffs is a lot more op than using size2stuffs. The same here.

[Joonatan1998]

If it has about the same Isp and TWR as the normal ions I have no problem with this.

Using lag caused by the amount of parts as a balancing tool is just terrible.

At least in endgame, early in career where you can only use a limited amount of parts it's ok.

There should never be a situation where the most efficient solution is to spam a ton of small parts instead of one large part.

Realism is still more important than gameplay. Ion engines belong, but with lower(on rails) thrust

Squad doesn't seem to think this way. They always go gameplay>realism.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Joonatan1998

[Stoney3K]

Bigger ion engines would give Squad another excuse to implement a small nuclear reactor in the game. This would allow use of nuclear electric propulsion on outer solar system missions!

I'd be game for that, in combination with ion clusters it would make a good platform for deep space vessels. At least it beats spamming RTGs and dozens of tiny ions.

Squad doesn't seem to think this way. They always go gameplay>realism.

And I support them for that. Not a lot of people have the patience to fly half an hour-long burns, they just want to push the button and fly their Kerbin to Jool ejection burn in minutes.

Does that mean we need to take artistic liberty and bring in a bit of movie physics? Maybe, but it does mean a lot more people can enjoy the game and not get bored.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Stoney3K

[Arugela]

Definiely no. An ION engine wich is as strong as a nuke... The point in ION engines is that you can get incredible efficiency from consumed fuel, but it has a wery low TWR, due to the need of large, heavy solar panels, and due to the low thrust. So you are incredibly efficint, but you have to wait for ages for any burn to complete. A such ION engine you desire should be at least size 2 or 3, and it should have lower stats(maybe not TWR, definitely not, but ISP, requied electricity, ect.). I don't know why, but using size1 stuffs is a lot more op than using size2stuffs. The same here.

the Ion I proposed would work exactly like the small one. It's just a size larger for parts sanity. It's scalled to everything. Even the change in weight is only down the ammount of one Ion engine. So it is 1/25 lighter. But you could just go with 6.25t over 6t. I tried to balance that by adding an excessive ammount of electrictiy(250/s). I thought that would balance it out. But it does work as well as other ships whne you apply the appropriate thrust. It's just heavier at the base changing the Delta V range if you used nothing else. It's basically only good for deep space travels and interplanetary. It helps give room for other fuels for landing and what not. If you are refering to larger diameter than a nuke I don't see the point. You could use the smaller diameter from the nuk for space stations and heavier objects with just that. You would never really need bigger. In face it would be a really good station mover if you put at that size compared to just satelites. 50 is about the most you'll ever need per engine for orbit.

And notice it weighs around twice the ammount of Nuclear scaled. Although the fuel is alot more than twice as light. You'd have to compare the consumption rates to see when one is better. Ion is currently 0.243/s per unit of thrust at a fuel weight of around 0.0001 if I recall correctly(this is before 1.0 release). That is 0.001215 weight per second for a 50 thrust engine. You must also includes electrical weight though which I haven't counted as it is complex. It weighs a certain ammount per electric charge stored and whatever if you are rechargeing but doesn't drop weight like other fuel sources. If you count stored electricity as 0.00005 the 50 thrust engine would take 218.5 per second for 0.010925 weighing 0.01214 per second maximum. this is curbed by the fact you don't have to store full ammounts of electricity cutting down the weight making it dependent on ship design. Recharging electricity is equally a variable and can be added back to the storage ammount for a small ammount. So it depends on the ship design. And that is dependent on what exactly you design it for. But the weight will never be the full ammount as you cannot feasibly store that much electricity and need it. And any recharge and time you use to fix this is going to be likely less in the scheme of things. You would need millions of units of electricty to get close to full weight. But you can easily get fractions of it if you want for a full space ship. I've done 100k-500k on larger mk2 ships and it works very well(Those were weightless parts before 1.0 though.). But it is a bit of a convenience if you will depending on what you are willing to put up with.

Nuclear is now oxidizerless, and unless they have changed the weight those oxidizer and rocket fuel weigh 0.005 per unit at a rate of around 1.53/s? That is 0.00765/s which is a fuel that always decreases until/unless refilled.

so if you are familiar with electricity you can see they are both pretty viable. it's just a matter of parts counts atm. And which type of ship you want. I always try both Ion and nuclear as one is a good backup for the other! 8) And a high electricity ship has alot of benefits in space. Or it used to. It's not a bad thing to get experience building.

Edit: BTW, is that vasmir engine something they are going to put into the game?

Edited August 29, 2015 by Arugela