Are VTOL's difficult to make for a semi-new player?

[panzer1b]

For SSTO spaceplanes it's another matter because such spaceplanes are often on the margins of what's possible, the extra weight of lift equipment could well stop you getting into orbit.

This is a SSTO (well SSTL, single stage to laythe surface and back to kerbin with 0 refueling or irsu). Now this is what id call "on the margins", ive also been trying to get a SSTE (single stage to eeloo surface and back with 0 refueling or irsu), but im honestly starting to believe is IMPOSSIBLE in the stock game without abusing some kind of major bugs like krakendrives or outright hacking stock parts. This craft is ~27 tons with full weapons load on start (has 2 missiles in its bomb bay), and without missiles or RCS equipment/fuel, it gets in excess of 5400dV once reaching LKO.

Now as for vtols, its really a matter of fuel balancing and or having the fuel natuarally balanced (say side fuel tanks around the VTOL engines). Im assuming by VTOL you mean aircraft that takes off vertically but stays horizontal to the ground (like the F35 or Harrier), since ofc rockets are all VTOLS technically. My main tip would be to make sure to have plenty of reaction wheels to counter any minor CoG discrepancies, and to just keep the CoG as close as possible to the VTOL engines, and also make sure that your CoG isnt shifting way too much (some is fine, and its near impossible to have 0 shift anyways). If you build this way, it should remain controllable unless you go upwarfds too fast (when wings can tip you over and reaction wheels wont help at such forces).

[AxleMC131]

Pecan,

I've found that I can land fine in all biomes without needing the parachutes.

The exception is KSC rooftops, which I work with a parasail.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/GoSlash27/scihopper_zpsilgcocwt.jpg

These are much easier for me to land precisely and cheaper/ easier to design.

Best,

-Slashy

Just flicking through and saw the above image. As with lots of things I see on these forums, my initial thought was, "I've GOT to re-create that in my game!" So I did.

I have to say GoSlash, that little parasail jet is possibly the most fun thing I have ever flown in KSP, ever. I mean, it ain't fast or the easiest thing to control, but man is it nimble! Definitely a great machine for flying around the KSC.

Edited August 31, 2015 by AxleMC131
Formatting

[Stoney3K]

I have to say GoSlash, that little parasail jet is possibly the most fun thing I have ever flown in KSP, ever. I mean, it ain't fast or the easiest thing to control, but man is it nimble! Definitely a great machine for flying around the KSC.

Does that parasail allow horizontal flight? Are those stock Mk16 chutes?

I always found the stock KSP chutes to be very draggy in the horiziontal direction. They're useful as emergency landing devices but not for controlled flight.

[AxleMC131]

Does that parasail allow horizontal flight? Are those stock Mk16 chutes?

I always found the stock KSP chutes to be very draggy in the horiziontal direction. They're useful as emergency landing devices but not for controlled flight.

Yeah, it flies horizontally. I think the basic principle of it is that the jet engine is angled downwards, which provides some downwards thrust, but causes the vehicle to tip forwards. The parachutes (yes, they're stock) pull it back and keep it level, letting it rise into the air. I flew this around the KSC for a bit and reached a maximum horizontal speed of about 12m/s - not much, but Slashy did say this was just for jumping around the buildings, which it definitely does well.

Either way, if you understand how to work it, it's a ton of fun to fly! Just throttle to about 2/3 and start down the runway as you usually would, then deploy the parachutes once you reach about 30m/s. Let them deploy to the point that you start slowing down again, then throttle up to maximum and pull back a little. The vehicle should pitch back and start to climb - from there it's pretty self-explanatory! To land it again, just kill the engine, and the parachutes will do the rest.

[GoSlash27]

For those interested in the parasail...

I really just came up with it because I suck at VTOLs and wanted something that used primitive tech to get science from the rooftops in career mode..

I deploy the chute at the same time I start the engine. Throttle up and a little nose up and it takes off.

I steer with the rudder and control climb rate with throttle. For final descent, I pitch up and adjust the throttle for glideslope (very steep and slow descent).

Best,

-Slashy

[AxleMC131]

I really just came up with it because I suck at VTOLs and wanted something that used primitive tech to get science from the rooftops in career mode..

I deploy the chute at the same time I start the engine. Throttle up and a little nose up and it takes off.

I steer with the rudder and control climb rate with throttle. For final descent, I pitch up and adjust the throttle for glideslope (very steep and slow descent).

Man, I was pretty damn close. Still an awesome vehicle, and actually really easy to build too. Thanks heaps for sharing this Slashy, I'm probably gonna use this sort of design from now on...

[FyunchClick]

I think Kuzzter build an interesting take on VTOL that seems to perform well in his "Duna ore bust" series, using vernors (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/122280-Duna-Ore-Bust%21-a-KSP-Graphic-Novel-%28Ch6-Pg14-Once-again-your-Friday-cliffhanger-%29). I tried that idea out on the Mun and it landed very, very smoothly (stick a docking port on the belly, select "control from here", track SAS (in surface mode) to prograde, enable RCS and just pulse your translate-back key to land. Nice thing is that they'll also help in stabilizing the craft if there's a bit of an unbalance. Takeoff even easier, revert control back to cockpit, press translate-up and point your nose where you want to go, then full throttle and you're off. You may need a lot of them though if you've got a big ship or are on a high g world.

RCS build aid mod makes placing them very easy.

Edit: fixed stupid mistakes and typos.

Edited August 31, 2015 by FyunchClick

[Pecan]

The exception is KSC rooftops, which I work with a parasail.

Funky!

(I was joking of course, although using parachutes to land once you've flown 'close' is not a bad way of doing things. Don't think I've ever managed a soft vertical landing on jets alone, because of the spool time).