I want to produce rocket fuel on other planets-Advice?

[DalisClock]

So I've been rather busy trying playing around with some of the other new features(as well as my own goals) since 1.0 landed. However, if I want to seriously consider interplanetary exploration, being able to make more fuel would be useful, especially since I'm going to start setting up a series of small orbiting outposts around the solar system for refueling purposes.

The trouble is, I don't really know much about the whole mining/refinement process. I intend to test on the mun before moving on to Duna(where my first landing party is already headed).

Apparently, it's entirely possible to build a big rover that acts a mobile fuel production facility but I'd like some advice on best practices to avoid a lot of unneeded pain and suffering. Sure, the mun is only a day away from LKO but it would be nice if my equipment actually worked when it got there.

Edited September 8, 2015 by DalisClock
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[Phil deCube]

Have you had a look at this tutorial?

[Randazzo]

Just a small bit of advice: I'd put the refinery on Ike with fuel stations in Orbit of Ike and Duna.

Although it takes less to get into Duna orbit than it did in the old aero systems, it's harder to pinpoint your landings and you'll either need to take less fuel up each trip or build a much larger fuel transport to get it into orbit than you would over Ike. It's much easier to build a transport that can carry a full jumbo from the surface of Ike into orbit and return back to the surface without refueling. Of course you then have to get it from Ike back to Duna, but that's less of a challenge to overcome.

[DalisClock]

Have you had a look at this tutorial?

I have not. Thanks. That'll help a lot. I'm sure I'll have do some testing at the KSC to make sure everything works but that should get me started.

[Geschosskopf]

In general, you need to decide whether you need to supply fuel in space, on the surface of a high-gravity planet, or both. If you have ships that will never touch the ground, then you need to refuel them in space, and the best way is to make the fuel on a conveniently located low-gravity moon. If you need to refuel landers for subsequent takeoff, or will be consuming fuel on the planet for exploration and whatnot, then you need refueling on the main planet as well. And sometimes (Moho, Dres, Eeloo) that's the only thing there is anyway.

While fuel and the ore it's made from weigh the same, the ore tanks are heavier than fuel tanks so it's more fuel-efficient to move finished product than ore. But OTOH, because the fuel is free and you can make all you need, this really isn't an issue and the ore tanks are more compact. Same goes for moving the ISRU unit and drills. It's most efficient to leave them on the ground but they don't weigh THAT much so lifting them, especially from a low-gravity moon, isn't that big a deal.

All mining/refining bases need to be located in or fairly close to a reasonably large area of relatively flat ground. This is so ships can land there. Minmus has perfectly flat flats but nothing else does, and ore tends to concentrate in the least level spots. If you're lucky, then ore that's good enough (not necessarily the highest concentration but still a lot) will be in a suitable LZ, which simplifies matters. If not, then you'll have to have some way to truck the fuel from the mine to the LZ.

If you're doing all your refueling in space and don't care about efficiency, the simplest way is to have a lander with drills and ore tanks that goes back and forth to an orbital ship or station with the ISRU. OTOH, if you're doing any refueling on the ground, or are striving for efficiency so are leaving the drills and ISRUs on the ground, then you need 2 other things: being reasonably good at landing at specific locations and some means of connecting ships together on the ground.

Landing precision can be defined as you can routinely land within easy KAS pipe distance (50m or less) of your mining base. If you can't do that, then you need wheels to bring the fuel to the ship. If the ore is in a flat place, then the drilling/refining "base" can be a rover. Land the ship that needs fuel, drive the rover to it, hook up, and drill right there. Otherwise, you need a fuel truck running between a distant mine in rough terrain and the LZ in flat terrain. As far as connecting stuff on the ground, docking ports work fine on Minmus' flats but everywhere else, the uneven ground can cause severe problems. This leaves the Klaw and KAS/KIS pipes.

But regardless of these details, the whole thing starts with finding the "best" ore. Not necessarily the absolutely highest concentration on the planet, but a relatively high level in or near and good LZ, and also on or near the equator (at least if gravity is an issue). I wrote a simple tutorial on prospecting for the "best" ore. See the link in my sig.

[Skorpychan]

You can mine asteroids. They're bulky and have a lot of mass, but the ore is 100% efficient, you can just dock stuff to them with a Klaw, and you can move them about. And there's no gravity well to them, so you can just haul one into orbit around, say, Duna, and just use it up until it's empty. Then because it'll be way lighter then, either just move it around for use as a base, or punt it out the system to safety. Or aerobrake it to land on Duna itself.

[jiminator]

anything you do you can test on kerbin. mining works there also. so make your rover, add an isru, holding tank, drill & maybe engineer and go test. you can actually mine anywhere, just some places the mining is going to be more efficient, but you can compensate with a skilled engineer.

[DalisClock]

You can mine asteroids. They're bulky and have a lot of mass, but the ore is 100% efficient, you can just dock stuff to them with a Klaw, and you can move them about. And there's no gravity well to them, so you can just haul one into orbit around, say, Duna, and just use it up until it's empty. Then because it'll be way lighter then, either just move it around for use as a base, or punt it out the system to safety. Or aerobrake it to land on Duna itself.

I actually have not tried doing anything with asteroids, including grabbing them. I supposed I need to put that on my KSP to-do list in the near future.

[Warzouz]

I've created a self refueling exploration space station design. It's quite well documented.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/132464

[DalisClock]

I've created a self refueling exploration space station design. It's quite well documented.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/132464

http://n.lejeune.free.fr/ksp/sal_miner.png

I've been meaning to ask, why those orbits in particular? I know the minimum safe orbit is different for each planet with an atmosphere but for moons and such, how much does it really matter(I've heard that as long as you have sufficent orbital dV, you can orbit the moon at an extremely low altitude as long as you're above the highest mountain)? How would one determine the "optimum" parking orbit for a space station or visiting spacecraft(that's not a lander)?

[Kryxal]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's mostly based on time warp capability for rendezvous.

[tbarcello]

In this video you can see my own mun refuelling station operations.

It's always advised to test the final version of your expedition on Mun. Good job right there.

[Warzouz]

I've been meaning to ask, why those orbits in particular? I know the minimum safe orbit is different for each planet with an atmosphere but for moons and such, how much does it really matter(I've heard that as long as you have sufficent orbital dV, you can orbit the moon at an extremely low altitude as long as you're above the highest mountain)? How would one determine the "optimum" parking orbit for a space station or visiting spacecraft(that's not a lander)?

It only recommended orbits. It's a balance between low orbit and decent timewarp (except for Eve, Tylo and Laythe which orbit is limited by the generic miner design, those are "safe orbits").

In theory, you're right about altitude. But, if you park your station too low, you won't be able to timewarp. That'll make rendez-vous very painful... I did a rescue rendez-vous in a very low orbit once. I was a very long wait... (maybe 20min, doing nothing iirc).

You can always return to space center and timewarp from there, but that's not very user-friendly. I understand returning to space center to wait for 1 day, but not 20min...

As I love docking (I find it relaxing), I don't like rendez-vous maneuvers...