help me adapt to ssto lifters in post 1.0

[Jakinbandw]

This is what I'm trying to do. I used similar lifters to great effect pre 1.0. but now with the new jets I can't get them to work. My old strategy was to sit at around 16k and build up speed, then use rockets to go the rest of the way. However this no longer seems to work as I can't seem to build up as much speed any more, and even up past 25k the fact that my rockets keep draining my forward tanks means my plane keeps losing stability. Fuel lines don't seem to allow me to program how my tanks are emptied anymore, and I am at my wits end.

So help a guy out here. What am I doing wrong? Do note that this is vanilla career and I don't want to download any mods because that feels like cheating.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Jakinbandw

[Vegetal]

That's an interesting spaceplane you have there.

Your ascent profile is wrong. It seems this was the right way before 1.0, but now the atmosphere is different. You now have to build your speed starting at 8km high, when you reach 20km you should have around 1200 m/s on turborams, before you engage the rockets.

One thing though, you might want to swap those reliants for the swivel, as they are quite a bit more efficient above 20km. They also have gimbals, which is kinda helpful when clearing the atmosphere.

Not much you can do about the fuel though, try to pump it manually.

[Nothalogh]

http://oi61.tinypic.com/iyljqa.jpg

This is what I'm trying to do. I used similar lifters to great effect pre 1.0. but now with the new jets I can't get them to work. My old strategy was to sit at around 16k and build up speed, then use rockets to go the rest of the way. However this no longer seems to work as I can't seem to build up as much speed any more, and even up past 25k the fact that my rockets keep draining my forward tanks means my plane keeps losing stability. Fuel lines don't seem to allow me to program how my tanks are emptied anymore, and I am at my wits end.

So help a guy out here. What am I doing wrong? Do note that this is vanilla career and I don't want to download any mods because that feels like cheating.

Well, first of all, you built a drag machine.

As for the ascent, my ascent profile goes as follows:

1 Go supersonic shortly after takeoff

2 Pitch up into a 25° to 30° climb and maintain about Mach 1.1 to 1.5

3 At about 7 to 10km, pitch down until your prograde marker is at 15°

4 Set throttle to full, and hang on to your buttcheeks

5 You will breach 19km at well over 1200m/s

5 Engage rockets or switch mode on your rapiers

6 Pitch up to 20° and burn until AP reaches target

[Jakinbandw]

Well, first of all, you built a drag machine.

Any ideas how to launch a tripod lander like that without so much drag? I messed around with a fairing, but it seemed even worse for drag.

[Nothalogh]

Any ideas how to launch a tripod lander like that without so much drag? I messed around with a fairing, but it seemed even worse for drag.

Use Mk3 fuselages

[Jakinbandw]

Use Mk3 fuselages

I don't have the science for that. Also I've messed around before and a it just doesn't fit. You end up with most of it sticking out and it looks ugly. It's why I used this style pre 1.0. It was the only way to build a plane that held my type of lander.

[Vegetal]

Maybe it isn't as draggy as you think. Try adjusting your ascent and see if you can make orbit then.

If not, open nodes are draggy, even if they are on the back. Try to cover the base of your lander tanks with the rounded nose cone.

[Sharpy]

Or use fairings.

You have a plenty of lift surface (the mk2 hulls) unused/wasted by orienting them sideways. If you orient them flat, you'll be able to reduce the wing surface and as result, drag.

Other than that, posting a screenshot of your tech tree would be helpful, because there are lots and lots of improvements to be done here by use higher tier parts. E.g. using nukes, aerospikes, shock cones, large fairings and so on.

[Pecan]

Nice plane.

Use a SSTO rocket though. Easier to design, easier to build, easier to fly. MUCH easier for large or awkward loads. Harder to land accurately and uses more fuel. Fuel is cheap.

[The_Rocketeer]

Hmm, I think I see the problem. I've included a design schematic to help you out:

Just kidding!

Looks to me like your ship might just be too draggy. I'm surprised you need so much wing.

Fuel-draining issues might be resolved by using stack separators and hoses, but to be honest you shouldn't be depending on lift characteristics too much by the time you fire up the rockets.

[Jakinbandw]

Maybe it isn't as draggy as you think. Try adjusting your ascent and see if you can make orbit then.

If not, open nodes are draggy, even if they are on the back. Try to cover the base of your lander tanks with the rounded nose cone.

That seemed to help. I did a small redesign today and now it works. I pitch up to 25 degrees leaving the runway, then at 5k I switch on the rockets and that gets me to orbit. Also from all the advice I realized that I was lacking thrust, which ended up making a big difference.

Here is the final version, in which I forgot people to pilot my lander... Oops.