Rocket returns to 90 degrees and reverses direction..?

[Arugela]

Another question. I am now trying to figure out everything related to my reaction wheels as they seem to be part of the problem. I have a small part of them exposed to the outside of the fuel tanks in the middle of the vehicle. Does this expose them to more force while flying than they would otherwise if they were completely sunk into the vehicle. I had to strut them adding parts and weight. Would sinking them more correctly, and completely into a fuel tank get rid of all forces on the part and stop wobbling while flying? Or do you still need to strut stuff stacked hidden inside the surface of a vehicle.

BTW, I'm not going the opposite direction anymore. Wether from struting the reaction wheels or flying safely. But asking to finish fixing more stuff related to the issue. It still causes slight deviation in my path. Although I've managed to fix it after getting up farther.

[cantab]

The stock aerodynamics works on a part-by-part basis, and so it ignores parts being clipped into each other, they make just as much drag as if they weren't clipped.

Anyway, what you were suffering was a classic aerodynamic flip. As others have said hold close to surface prograde at all times until you're way up high, and if that doesn't help then add fins. It's then just a case of figuring out how much you need to pitch over early in the ascent.

[Arugela]

I'm back to the same old problem. Now I'm playing with airbrakes and drogue shoots to see if I can land safely on Kerbin and learn stuff to eventually get eve and other atmospheric bodies into the ships listed capabilities.

the problem is now I'm launching this and getting to about 45k liquid fuel and it starts to vear to the side uncontrollably. anyone have any idea what is causing this?

I thought I had gotten rid of these problems. Unless it was an issue with low fuel and ship balance which didn't hit until space.. Although I wasn't getting it in orbit anymore either. So I'm not sure of it's nature. I'm wondering a bit if it's fuel but everything on this ship is completely symetrical as far as I know.

The fuel is emptied so the COM is at the lowest/farthest back point possible. I've also played with the COL both behind this point and in front. I don't think the COM can get in front of the COL at this point. Unless I am wrong and this is the issue...

Edit: I'm doing test to see if I can get 0 fuel landings. With this many parts and the gaudiness it creates on the vehicle I may forego this in the end. I think the ship is a space ship only. So unless I add a few things for jool turns in it's atmosphere. It may not be worth it. Plus it gives the ship more character to not land on larger planets. So I may just go with a few air brakes in the end for jool or kerbol and maybe a drag parachute or two to experiment with using them in deep space! 8) Also, still hoping for the game optimizations to make this type of design easier to fly. Then I can test out the craft and refine it the way I want.

Updated File:

http://www./download/t1m688vbbtptypq/The_Orion.craft <- Beware! 1800+ parts ship!

Edited October 11, 2015 by Arugela

[FancyMouse]

Suddenly a word comes to my mind - spontaneous symmetry breaking.

[Arugela]

Suddenly a word comes to my mind - spontaneous symmetry breaking.

Technically, that isn't a word! Unless you squish it together like this, "spontaneoussymmetrybreaking!" ><

What do you mean btw!? 8p Just that the ship is too big and the inherent symmetry is subtly or not so subtly broken and it veers to the side? If that is the case it actually went to the side in a perfectly straight direction. This picture was after trying to steer it back. It perfectly went to the one side along the line on the navball. Which I thought was a little odd.

I looked up the phrase you used and found something like someone recording sound resonance... I'm not sure what it is they are recording. I was assuming it's not electromagnetic waves. But I have no idea! Or is it electromagnet fields..

What about the ship and thrust or weight would be able to settle in one direction and tip it... While Ironically not happening in a vacuum. (which at one point in this ship design was actually an issue!)

Edited October 11, 2015 by Arugela

[Waxing_Kibbous]

Try pumping fuel forward

[Arugela]

Too difficult to do with this ship. And my COM is moving forward as opposed to backwards.

Edit: I've discovered part of the problem. The "Mammoth" and "Mainsail" engines are taking from one fuel tank in the corner and making the ship off balanced. This eventually leads to it tipping. This is only happening after draining from these smaller tanks enough that it hurts my ships flight performance and hence I don't see it initially with the boosters on or until it drain enough of the fuel tanks to be noticeable. Normally it has to go through all of the top tanks first which keeps the weight more proportional. But this explains the subtle fluctuation off my desired path while doing gravity turns and other things potentially. I've been noticing it more recently though because I emptied the top tanks to mess with aero dynamics with the lowest COM and made them more influential.

It is only being taken from that one inner corner tank and not the other 3 in that position on the engine pods. Everything else seem ok at this point. But it's also only from 2 engine types. I haven't yet identified what is causing those two to do it. I wonder if it is some accidental misplacement of those hub though. I made sure they were symmetrical when I first made them. But something might have broken their order along the way. I placed them in a specific order so they would be taken in that order just in case of fuel issues... Oh well!

The changes in the center of mass don't seem to matter much in this craft. As long as it is directly moving up and down and nothing else! Sadly this will kill this craft in the end or mid states of any mission. Or whenever those little tanks get the opportunity to make enough of a difference in the centering of my COM.

BTW, it is the inner upper tank with the mainsail engines on the side of the craft with the large survey scanner and the largest cargo bay door facing out. That is the direction the picture is looking at.

http://www./download/t1m688vbbtptypq/The_Orion.craft <- 1800+ parts again!

Edited October 12, 2015 by Arugela

[Arugela]

http://www./download/p3wt7o3sbibj6up/The_Orion_fuel_line_test.craft <-412 parts (reuploaded with correct parts count!)

I've isolated the parts of the ship relevant to the problem(as far as I know.) if it's on the runway the Mamoth engines(shortcut2) and the Mainsail engines(Shortcut3) will only take from the tank indicated in this picture. I'm trying to isolate why. It is the inner top Rockomax X200 32 fuel tank connected to the hub.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Arugela

[Arugela]

I've since fixed the fuel line issue. But then it comes back. If I have to take off one part and put it back on the logic breaks and it stops taking fuel symmetrically. It's impossible to do seemingly because of a myriad of bugs.

Worked great initially though!

[Arugela]

I think I've come to a greater revelation about it. A big part is the location of the COM with the boosters on. The more I have to increase their weight and thrust the more I run into it. The COM is at the joint between the boosters and the main ship. This joint is very weak. And so when the boosters turn with the thrust they produce they shove the front end of the vehicle slightly upwards. This eventually makes the ship go the other direction. There were also some fuel line issues and other structural issues involve. I have to figure out how to get over the COMs position through struts or reorganizing of parts. Although there may have been other reasons it was going the other way before.

I've since redone the engine pods in a way that puts them close enough together to be able to strut the boosters better and help alleviate this.

Now the engine pods stay straight with the body. So, unless I find another problem I guess this is solved.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Arugela