Forced Progression System - Do missions get re-offered ?

[Spaceweezle]

The Contract system is structured in such a way that it forces you into a linear path of research and development. There really is only the illusion of choice since Contracts dictate what you are researching and building.

Personally I don't care for Spaceplane technology, so I lost a lot of resources right off the bat. Having done everything rocket orientated, I set out for the Mun. When I returned I noticed there a bunch of missions that were almost expired, plus those that seemingly eluded me all together.

Now there is 2 contracts for Science collection on and around Mun expiring in 30 minutes. Having just returned from there on a 34 day expedition, I got no chance of delivering on these contracts, so do they get offered again at some stage ?

Pretty low on funds at the moment, so I guess this spells another restart for me.

[Alshain]

I don't follow what you are saying when you say "it forces you into a linear path of research and development". First, you don't have to accept a contract. Second, you aren't required to research any one node before another unless it has a prerequisite node.

How did not researching Spaceplane technology lose you resources? You don't have to research them if you don't want to. Nothing in the contracts forces you to. (Although later on you will be missing fairings if you don't)

Science contracts are procedurally generated. You may or may not see one just like that later, but it doesn't matter, they are infinite. New ones just keep getting generated. There are a few exceptions. The "Fly By", "Explore", "Return a Kerbal From", "Land On" and possibly a few others are one time only. If you accomplish the goal before accepting the contract you will never see it. Also, of course, the first 4 contracts are required. For example if you enter Minmus' sphere of influence you will never see the special "Fly By Minmus" contract. Sometime you won't see it anyway really.

I really think you don't understand fully how the contract system works, unless your bankrupt completely and cannot accept a contract for some reason, there isn't a reason to restart. You can choose to decline any contract and a new one will pop up in its place (except those special ones I listed, you can't decline those)

EDIT: One other thing, I just realized something you might be misunderstanding as well. The "Test this part" contracts do not require you to have the part. It will allow you to use it, even if you haven't researched it, until the contract is completed.

EDIT2: Also, the system is a bit smart at some things. If you have a Kerbal sitting on Minmus it will never give you a Minmus surface science contract, not until you get him off it (too easy to exploit). The same might be true for orbit, not really sure.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Alshain

[Spaceweezle]

Well there are significant static Contracts that appear on a timeline basis, which forces you into researching and developing vessels capable of those tasks. I was not referring to the structure of the technology tree. From what I've been reading the Mun science runs don't get offered again.

Early on there are a bunch of missions to survey pin-point locations on Kerbin, A task that is apparently made a lot easier with the use of Spaceplanes. I'm sure it's doable with rockets if you're very experienced, but given the time frame at which the contracts are offered, you are just beginning and don't have the experience or the technology to do pin-point landings in full atmosphere, hence forcing you down the spaceplane route.

Thanks for the tip about contract parts, I always ignored the ones that I did not have the part for. This should help a lot.

[Alshain]

Mun science contracts will repeat, if you don't have a Kerbal sitting on the Mun. Whatever you were reading, the person that wrote it probably didn't understand this game mechanic. It wasn't always this way and people would just 'station' a Kerbal on each planet or moon with an antenna and whenever a contract popped up they would switch over and send home a crew report for easy money... too easy. Squad fixed that problem.

If you are talking about the ones I listed above (Explore, Fly By, etc) those 'static' contracts are not required. You don't have to take them, but they are usually quite lucrative. However, they don't expire and will never leave the list.

Survey missions are easier with planes (for atmosphere planets anyway). I won't deny that one, but you don't have to take those either. I mean, I don't take any surface base building contracts because the game sucks at building surface bases. I also don't take any resource based contracts because the stock ISRU sucks (and actually I've modded the game now not to even offer them). None of that has ruined my game. They are never required.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Alshain

[Spaceweezle]

Not having the part requirement on those "test this" missions has given me some flexibility. It doesn't feel so linear now. At least those missions I can do freely without any major reliance on research.

I think where I am coming from is, those "lucrative" missions might as well be mandatory because they are a major stepping stone that could mean the difference between surviving and flourishing. They seem oddly placed on the progression timeline which I guess follows form of how the difficulty fluctuates so randomly.

I'm going to restart again with that new found knowledge. I have simply missed too many test missions and my capital is already suffering to the point I am scared to launch anything into space.

Thanks for your insights.

[rcp27]

Well there are significant static Contracts that appear on a timeline basis, which forces you into researching and developing vessels capable of those tasks. I was not referring to the structure of the technology tree. From what I've been reading the Mun science runs don't get offered again.

I have definitely had the "science from [location]" contracts come up repeatedly. This is different from the "explore [place]" contracts that are the one-off ones. I usually collect a bunch of contracts like "science from surface of", "plant flag on", "rescue from surface of", "take tourists to" and "build surface outpost on" contracts, then build a big lander that can do all of them in a single mission, and rake in the cash. I've done science from the surface of Mun at least 3 times.

Early on there are a bunch of missions to survey pin-point locations on Kerbin, A task that is apparently made a lot easier with the use of Spaceplanes. I'm sure it's doable with rockets if you're very experienced, but given the time frame at which the contracts are offered, you are just beginning and don't have the experience or the technology to do pin-point landings in full atmosphere, hence forcing you down the spaceplane route.

Or you can do what I do, and just ignore them entirely.

Contract progression is driven by what science nodes you have and what places you have visited. You will stop getting the visual survey on Kerbin ones once you have gone farther afield because the algorithm thinks you have progressed far enough in the game that they aren't interesting or challenging anymore. There is no cost associated with not doing a class of contract. For example if you ignore the "visual survey of [Kerbin location]" contracts, it will have no impact on what sort of contracts come up in the future game. Contracts basically are just there as a means of getting money and a way for the game to create things for you to do that are challenging in a way that is appropriate for your current progression.

- - - Updated - - -

Now there is 2 contracts for Science collection on and around Mun expiring in 30 minutes. Having just returned from there on a 34 day expedition, I got no chance of delivering on these contracts, so do they get offered again at some stage ?

Just to make it clear, these contracts are randomly generated, and if they expire they will be replaced by new contracts, also randomly generated. The contract generation algorithm considers what tech you have, what places you have been and what your reputation is. It will then keep generating new contracts without limit. You can chose to do or not do contracts depending on what you feel like doing without any limit. If you chose not to do a contract and let it expire, it in no way prevents new contracts from being offered.

Also note the "expiry" date on contracts is different from the completion deadline. A contract might expire in a few hours, but once you accept it you will have a long time to complete it. Mun contracts are usually something like 5 years.

[Streetwind]

Well there are significant static Contracts that appear on a timeline basis, which forces you into researching and developing vessels capable of those tasks. I was not referring to the structure of the technology tree. From what I've been reading the Mun science runs don't get offered again.

No, that's not how it works. Broadly speaking, there are five types of contracts:

- Records: those are the "contracts" you automatically have at game start, without ever manually accepting anything. Speed records, altitude records, that sort of stuff.

- Mandatory initial progression: your four first contracts. Science from the launchpad, launch a vessel, escape the atmosphere, orbit Kerbin. These four are guaranteed to appear in every game you start, and you're pretty much required to do them to progress (and you cannot reject them). Only through completing these four will you get access to all other possible contracts.

- Optional guided progression milestones: Just like the initial progression contracts, these are steps you can do in a linear order. Fly by <body>, orbit <body>, land on <body>, return Kerbal from <body>. They start with the Mun, then progress to Minmus; I've never really checked if they also progress to other planets because I was too impatient. The thing with these is that if you skip ahead - if you do a flyby before getting the contract, or if you go straight into orbit on your first visit, or if you go to Minmus before the Mun etc., you break the chain and these contracts stop showing up altogether. They are meant as guidelines for new players, who have no idea what they are doing and don't get the idea of visiting other places by themselves. As soon as you start displaying the ability and inclination of going wherever you please, the game stops bothering to try and guide you linearly, and instead just lets you find your own way.

- Exploration contracts: A simple contract template called "Explore <body>". Note that these are not part of the milestone progression system described above; they get offered in parallel/independently of it. However, they work largely the same. If you enter the SoI of a body before you get the exploration contract, then you will never see it. And in contrast to the milestones, you're not guaranteed to get these, either. They appear at random, are fairly rare, and are not repeatable. For this reason, most people will never see the complete set of exploration contracts for all bodies.

- Repeatable content: The bulk of the contracts in the game. They are generated procedurally, and if they expire, the slot they freed up will just be filled up with a new contract. No matter how many of these you do, there will always, always be an infinite amount more. These include: tourists, part testing, collect science, plant flag, survey, launch satellite, launch space station, construct surface base, do stuff with asteroids... and possibly others I have forgotten. Repeatable content shows up as soon as you first reach space. The types of contracts available is based on your tech progression (you won't get asteroid contracts without researching the claw), and the task you have to do is dependant on your progress in the game (tourists start out wanting to go on suborbital flights, but if you have been to Jool, then tourists also want to go to Jool).

The important takeaway for you is: there are no mandatory static contracts after the first four ones, and you are never forced to rush towards researching/constructing a vessel to meet any deadline that you haven't specifically accepted. And stuff like "return science from orbit around the Mun" is not even a special contract; it's just repeatable content.

In fact, on the topic of deadlines: Contracts have two of them.

The first is usually a couple days (Kerbin days) long, so 30-40 hours. That is the time you have to accept this contract, before it disappears from your list of choices and gets replaced by a different one. The second deadline is the completion time, which is usually measured in years even for the simplest of tasks. The timer does not start until you actually accept the contract.

Generally, special contracts like the first four or the exploration missions are very easily distinguishable from the rest: they don't have the first deadline. The text below the accept/decline buttons will just say "Expires: Never". They still have a completion time after you accept them, but you can just leave them sitting unaccepted for however long you wish.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Streetwind

[Spaceweezle]

Awesome, thanks for going into such detail. For a while it felt like I was missing out on a lot of opportunities because of my reluctance/stubborness to flow with the grain of contracts offered early on. It felt like they were pushing me to advance in Spaceplane technology, which would have benefited me ultimately, but I just had no interest in it.

I guess my gripe stems from wanting/needing full creative control over my enterprise and also my completionist/perfectionist attitude.

Thanks for all the great info, it helped very much!

[obsidian_x]

Now there is 2 contracts for Science collection on and around Mun expiring in 30 minutes. Having just returned from there on a 34 day expedition, I got no chance of delivering on these contracts, so do they get offered again at some stage ?

I don't think anyone has mentioned this part of your post - Contracts appear in the list of potential contracts you can accept - there's the contract completion date, and the time left to accept that contract. (I treat it as another agency picks it up not just mine). I assume you mean there's only 30 minutes to accept the contract, not complete it. But when it does expire, another is generated as others said above.

You can also go back and accept any contracts during a mission (especially if you just completed 1 or 2, there may be a new plant flag, or transmit science available) if you change back to the space centre, or get a mod that allows you to accept contracts within a mission.

[technion]

For what it's worth, in my current save, I have been everywhere except Laythe, and I haven't even started building spaceplane. I just ignored the Kerbin surface contracts because I've always felt they were out of place. Once I've done Laythe I might try and circumnavigate Kerbin in a plane. I'll get nothing from it from a contract point of view and that doesn't really matter.

Rewards for contracts and science escalates dramatically once you leave Kerbin. I know it feels like a grind visiting the mun 5-6 times and trying to pick contracts you can efficiently do to get cash for building upgrades, and get enough science to progress, but you'll visit Duna and Ike, and money be such a thing after that.

[Spaceweezle]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this part of your post - Contracts appear in the list of potential contracts you can accept - there's the contract completion date, and the time left to accept that contract. (I treat it as another agency picks it up not just mine). I assume you mean there's only 30 minutes to accept the contract, not complete it. But when it does expire, another is generated as others said above.

You can also go back and accept any contracts during a mission (especially if you just completed 1 or 2, there may be a new plant flag, or transmit science available) if you change back to the space centre, or get a mod that allows you to accept contracts within a mission.

Oh right! I thought I had literally 30 minutes to get to Mun and back lol.

I didn't realize that the expiration was just for compliance, not actually completion, woe is me!

Thanks for clarifying.