Wave-particle duality is a moving particle AND it's associated wave

[mpc755]

I can't contribute to this discussion (except that I think that mentioning "aether" in 21st century is a bit weird), but please do go on, guys. The discussion is very entertaining, in its own way. Kinda like watching a boxing match between Tyson and chihuahua.

"The word 'ether' has extremely negative connotations in theoretical physics because of its past association with opposition to relativity. This is unfortunate because, stripped of these connotations, it rather nicely captures the way most physicists actually think about the vacuum. . . . Relativity actually says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of matter pervading the universe, only that any such matter must have relativistic symmetry. [..] It turns out that such matter exists. About the time relativity was becoming accepted, studies of radioactivity began showing that the empty vacuum of space had spectroscopic structure similar to that of ordinary quantum solids and fluids. Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness. It is filled with 'stuff' that is normally transparent but can be made visible by hitting it sufficiently hard to knock out a part. The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether. But we do not call it this because it is taboo." - Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel Laureate in Physics, endowed chair in physics, Stanford University

Matter, quantum solids and fluids, a piece of window glass and 'stuff' have mass and so does the space unoccupied by particles of matter.

You can call 'it' whatever you want. The space unoccupied by particles of matter has mass and is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it.

You can call it plenum, ether, aether, quintessence, quantum foam, quantum vacuum or make up your own term. I prefer the term aether when describing the mass which fills the space unoccupied by particles of matter.

When you place a detector at the exit to a slit you destroy the cohesion of the associated wave exiting that slit with the wave exiting the other slit and the waves exiting both slits will no longer create wave interference.

'1st place: Shifting the morals of quantum measurement'

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/dec/16/physics-world-reveals-its-top-10-breakthroughs-for-2011

"Using an emerging technique called "weak measurement", the team is the first to track the average paths of single photons passing through a Young's double-slit experiment – something that Steinberg says physicists had been "brainwashed" into thinking is impossible."

'Quantum mechanics rule 'bent' in classic experiment'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13626587

'For his part, Professor Steinberg believes that the result reduces a limitation not on quantum physics but on physicists themselves. "I feel like we're starting to pull back a veil on what nature really is," he said. "The trouble with quantum mechanics is that while we've learned to calculate the outcomes of all sorts of experiments, we've lost much of our ability to describe what is really happening in any natural language. I think that this has really hampered our ability to make progress, to come up with new ideas and see intuitively how new systems ought to behave."'

'New 'Double Slit' Experiment Skirts Uncertainty Principle'

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=new-double-slit-experiment-skirts-uncertainty-principle

"Intriguingly, the trajectories closely match those predicted by an unconventional interpretation of quantum mechanics known as pilot-wave theory, in which each particle has a well-defined trajectory that takes it through one slit while the associated wave passes through both slits."

A moving particle has an associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit. It is the associated wave which passes through both. As the wave exits the slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. This is the wave guiding the particle. Strongly detecting the particle causes a loss of cohesion between the particle and its associated wave, the particle continues on the trajectory it was traveling and it does not form an interference pattern.

What waves in a double slit experiment is the aether.

[YNM]

I can't contribute to this discussion (except that I think that mentioning "aether" in 21st century is a bit weird), but please do go on, guys. The discussion is very entertaining, in its own way. Kinda like watching a boxing match between Tyson and chihuahua.

More like having a facepalm-inducing chamber where there's only one same speaker all the time, and it's always Q&A session. But that's looks more like usual politics.

Anyway, I cannot contribute anything to this thread. I don't have much knowledge of QM, and my little knowledge of GR pretty much vaporize when touching deep QM. What K^2 said was interesting where he said that detectors are an additional element to the system in QM (wouldn't that makes even a small star out there so far would interfere all experiments about QM ?), I think I need to read QM more.

One question for OP though : what about single-slit experiment ? Would double-slit experiments just a superposition of two single slit experiments, or not ?

[mpc755]

More like having a facepalm-inducing chamber where there's only one same speaker all the time, and it's always Q&A session. But that's looks more like usual politics.

Anyway, I cannot contribute anything to this thread. I don't have much knowledge of QM, and my little knowledge of GR pretty much vaporize when touching deep QM. What K^2 said was interesting where he said that detectors are an additional element to the system in QM (wouldn't that makes even a small star out there so far would interfere all experiments about QM ?), I think I need to read QM more.

One question for OP though : what about single-slit experiment ? Would double-slit experiments just a superposition of two single slit experiments, or not ?

In a single slit experiment the associated wave interacts with the walls of the slits.

The particle creates a diffraction pattern as it is guided by the wave after exiting the slit.

Think of a boat going between two rock jetties as it enters the harbor. It's the bow wave which 'interacts' with the jetties.

Edited October 17, 2015 by mpc755

[PB666]

Ether is a disliked term because it was extensively abused in the 19th and 20th. I used to have to go gather papers 30 y ago and some of them were from the early 20th century. It is rather illuminating the nouns that were used to describe the unknowns. Ether, Aether etc was used to describe basically any system that behaved oddly under circumstances were you did not expect it to behave oddly.

This was very far reaching, for example a protean with a high activity had an ether, transferred nucleic acid that imparted new qualities to an organism had an ether.

The fact that it is used to name a chemical least of which is methoxy methane, is bad enough. IMO its a legacy word that is best left in science history.

Edited October 17, 2015 by PB666

[mpc755]

"The word 'ether' has extremely negative connotations in theoretical physics because of its past association with opposition to relativity. This is unfortunate because, stripped of these connotations, it rather nicely captures the way most physicists actually think about the vacuum. . . . Relativity actually says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of matter pervading the universe, only that any such matter must have relativistic symmetry. [..] It turns out that such matter exists. About the time relativity was becoming accepted, studies of radioactivity began showing that the empty vacuum of space had spectroscopic structure similar to that of ordinary quantum solids and fluids. Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness. It is filled with 'stuff' that is normally transparent but can be made visible by hitting it sufficiently hard to knock out a part. The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether. But we do not call it this because it is taboo." - Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel Laureate in Physics, endowed chair in physics, Stanford University

[PB666]

It has a bad connotation in all the physical sciences, for good reason, it was abused.

In addition there is no reason to use a word that can be cofused for 30 different things.

As i posted these historical figures are talking about hidden variation, so you sould refer to it in its specific sense not in a generic sense that apllies also to 30unrelated science tpoics.

[mpc755]

Active faculty member and Nobel prize winner Robert Laughlin disagrees with you.

https://physics.stanford.edu/people/faculty/robert-laughlin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories#Quantum_vacuum

"The word 'ether' has extremely negative connotations in theoretical physics because of its past association with opposition to relativity. This is unfortunate because, stripped of these connotations, it rather nicely captures the way most physicists actually think about the vacuum. . . . Relativity actually says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of matter pervading the universe, only that any such matter must have relativistic symmetry. [..] It turns out that such matter exists. About the time relativity was becoming accepted, studies of radioactivity began showing that the empty vacuum of space had spectroscopic structure similar to that of ordinary quantum solids and fluids. Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness. It is filled with 'stuff' that is normally transparent but can be made visible by hitting it sufficiently hard to knock out a part. The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether. But we do not call it this because it is taboo." - Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel Laureate in Physics, endowed chair in physics, Stanford University

[PB666]

The first link is irrelevant, the form of propoganda is known as glittering personalities.

The second link I posted previously in the thread. You should note that QM basically tolerates a deviation from relativistic physics at Planck's scale. And these theories, largely forgotten as they are unsupportable.

The third item is something you repeated. Repeating large data blocks over and over again only shows a tiresome attitude that others take offense at.

[mpc755]

The first link is to show the quote is from a physicist who is currently an active member of the physics department at Stanford: "Faculty Type: Active Faculty". This is not a 'historical' quote from the late 1800's or early 1900's.

The second link is to show a place online which contains the quote which you refer to as the third item.

I have to continually repeat the quote due to a poster who keeps insisting repeatedly that the notion of the ether is absurd. I am simply posting a quote from an active physicist who is also a Nobel prize winner who says, "The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether.".

If that poster would simply stop repeating themselves then the posting of this quote would not have to be repeated.

[PB666]

The first link is to show the quote is from a physicist who is currently an active member of the physics department at Stanford: "Faculty Type: Active Faculty". This is not a 'historical' quote from the late 1800's or early 1900's.

That link did not contain the quote, the personality page is one that any nickle/dime professor might have, whether or not he has a web page does not defend your fringe theory.

I have to continually repeat the quote due to a poster who keeps insisting repeatedly that the notion of the ether is absurd.

The term was not absurb 100 years ago, its obsolete now, its about 60 years obsolete. The term was so heavily abused in the era of descriptive non-qualitative science. You can simply go to any science library and pick up the Journal of Biological Chemistry or any chemistry journal and read for your self. Beware of any poster who relies repeatedly on select authors or single papers as his source.

[mpc755]

That link did not contain the quote, the personality page is one that any nickle/dime professor might have, whether or not he has a web page does not defend your fringe theory.

This is the first link: https://physics.stanford.edu/people/faculty/robert-laughlin

This page contains: "Faculty Type: Active Faculty". The quote from Robert Laughlin is not 'historical'. Robert Laughlin is an active faculty member in the physics department at Stanford.

It is the second link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories#Quantum_vacuum which contains the quote.

The term was not absurb 100 years ago, its obsolete now, its about 60 years obsolete. The term was so heavily abused in the era of descriptive non-qualitative science. You can simply go to any science library and pick up the Journal of Biological Chemistry or any chemistry journal and read for your self. Beware of any poster who relies repeatedly on select authors or single papers as his source.

The quote from Robert Laughlin is from 2005:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories#cite_note-9

"Laughlin, Robert B. (2005). A Different Universe: Reinventing Physics from the Bottom Down. NY, NY: Basic Books. pp. 120–121. ISBN 978-0-465-03828-2."

2005 is 10 years ago, not 60.

Edited October 17, 2015 by mpc755

[PB666]

This is the first link: https://physics.stanford.edu/people/faculty/robert-laughlin

This page contains: "Faculty Type: Active Faculty". The quote from Robert Laughlin is not 'historical'. Robert Laughlin is an active faculty member in the physics department at Stanford.

It is the second link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories#Quantum_vacuum which contains the quote.

The quote from Robert Laughlin is from 2005:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories#cite_note-9

"Laughlin, Robert B. (2005). A Different Universe: Reinventing Physics from the Bottom Down. NY, NY: Basic Books. pp. 120–121. ISBN 978-0-465-03828-2."

2005 is 10 years ago, not 60.

So basically what you are saying is that since you can find one author in the field, a rather aged man at that, who still uses the term aether and who waxes philosophical anout its use, and even though at its prime it was as vague as scientific terms get you are still going to spew this nonsense out? Despite people telling you in good faith that there are more descriptive terms that have fewer attached 'baggage', you are still going to use this decidedly vague and obsolete nonsense. Yes or No question?

[mpc755]

So basically what you are saying is that since you can find one author in the field, a rather aged man at that, who still uses the term aether and who waxes philosophical anout its use, and even though at its prime it was as vague as scientific terms get you are still going to spew this nonsense out? Despite people telling you in good faith that there are more descriptive terms that have fewer attached 'baggage', you are still going to use this decidedly vague and obsolete nonsense. Yes or No question?

There is no such thing as dark matter which travels with the matter. Matter moves through and displaces the mass which fills the space unoccupied by particles of matter. If the problem is the term aether then call it 'dark mass'.

'Dark matter' is now understood to fill what would otherwise be considered to be empty space.

'Cosmologists at Penn Weigh Cosmic Filaments and Voids'

http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/news/cosmologists-penn-weigh-cosmic-filaments-and-voids

"Dark matter ... permeate all the way to the center of the voids."

'No Empty Space in the Universe --Dark Matter Discovered to Fill Intergalactic Space'

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/02/no-empty-space-in-the-universe-dark-matter-discovered-to-fill-intergalactic-space-.html

"A long standing mystery on where the missing dark matter is has been solved by the research. There is no empty space in the universe. The intergalactic space is filled with dark matter."

In order to avoid the baggage associated with dark matter, the term 'dark mass' will be used to describe the mass which fills the space unoccupied by particles of matter.

Particles of matter move through and displace the dark mass, including 'particles' as large as galaxies and galaxy clusters.

What physics mistakes for the density of the dark matter is actually the state of displacement of the dark mass.

Particles of matter move through and displace the dark mass, including 'particles' as large as galaxies and galaxy clusters.

'The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided'

http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3802

"the emerging picture of the dark matter halo of the Milky Way is dominantly lopsided in nature."

The Milky Way's halo is not a clump of dark matter traveling along with the Milky Way. The Milky Way's halo is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the dark mass, analogous to a submarine moving through and displacing the water.

The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the dark mass.

The Milky Way moves through and curves spacetime.

The Milky Way's halo is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the dark mass is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the dark mass is gravity.

A moving particle has an associated wave in the dark mass.

In a double slit experiment the particle travels through a single slit and the associated wave in the dark mass passes through both.

Q. Why is the particle always detected traveling through a single slit in a double slit experiment?

A. The particle always travels through a single slit. It is the associated wave in the dark mass which passes through both.

The wave of wave-particle duality is a wave in the dark mass.

What ripples when galaxy clusters collide is what waves in a double slit experiment, the dark mass.

Einstein's gravitational wave is de Broglie's wave of wave-particle duality, both are waves in the dark mass.

Dark mass displaced by matter relates general relativity and quantum mechanics.

[mpc755]

For those of you who freak out over the term 'aether', replace 'aether' with 'dark mass' in the following.

Here are some articles where the observed physical phenomenon is correctly described by the matter moving through and displacing the aether.

'Galactic Pile-Up May Point to Mysterious New Dark Force in the Universe'

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/01/musket-ball-dark-force/

"The reason this is strange is that dark matter is thought to barely interact with itself. The dark matter should just coast through itself and move at the same speed as the hardly interacting galaxies. Instead, it looks like the dark matter is crashing into something  perhaps itself – and slowing down faster than the galaxies are. But this would require the dark matter to be able to interact with itself in a completely new an unexpected way, a “dark force†that affects only dark matter."

It's not a new force. It's the aether displaced by each of the galaxy clusters interacting analogous to the bow waves of two boats which pass by each other.

'Offset between dark matter and ordinary matter: evidence from a sample of 38 lensing clusters of galaxies'

http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1475

"Our data strongly support the idea that the gravitational potential in clusters is mainly due to a non-baryonic fluid, and any exotic field in gravitational theory must resemble that of CDM fields very closely."

The offset is due to the galaxy clusters moving through and displacing the aether. The analogy is a submarine moving through the water. You are under water. Two miles away from you are many lights. Moving between you and the lights one mile away is a submarine. The submarine displaces the water. The state of displacement of the water causes the center of the lensing of the light propagating through the water to be offset from the center of the submarine itself. The offset between the center of the lensing of the light propagating through the water displaced by the submarine and the center of the submarine itself is going to remain the same as the submarine moves through the water. The submarine continually displaces different regions of the water. The state of the water connected to and neighboring the submarine remains the same as the submarine moves through the water even though it is not the same water the submarine continually displaces. This is what is occurring as the galaxy clusters move through and displace the aether.

'Hubble Finds Ghostly Ring of Dark Matter'

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/dark_matter_ring_feature.html

"Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope got a first-hand view of how dark matter behaves during a titanic collision between two galaxy clusters. The wreck created a ripple of dark matter, which is somewhat similar to a ripple formed in a pond when a rock hits the water."

The 'pond' consists of aether. The galaxy clusters are moving through and displacing the aether. The ripple created when galaxy clusters collide is a wave in the aether.

'The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided'

http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3802

"the emerging picture of the dark matter halo of the Milky Way is dominantly lopsided in nature."

The Milky Way's halo is not a clump of dark matter traveling along with the Milky Way. The Milky Way's halo is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the aether, analogous to a submarine moving through and displacing the water.

Einstein's first 'paper'. A letter to his uncle.

http://www.worldscibooks.com/etextbook/4454/4454_chap1.pdf

"The velocity of a wave is proportional to the square root of the elastic forces which cause [its] propagation, and inversely proportional to the mass of the aether moved by these forces."

Einstein is referring to the state of displacement of the aether.

The velocity of a wave is proportional to the square root of the elastic forces which cause its propagation, and inversely proportional to the mass of the aether displaced by these forces.

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

"Think of waves on the surface of water. Here we can describe two entirely different things. Either we may observe how the undulatory surface forming the boundary between water and air alters in the course of time; or else-with the help of small floats, for instance - we can observe how the position of the separate particles of water alters in the course of time. If the existence of such floats for tracking the motion of the particles of a fluid were a fundamental impossibility in physics - if, in fact nothing else whatever were observable than the shape of the space occupied by the water as it varies in time, we should have no ground for the assumption that water consists of movable particles. But all the same we could characterise it as a medium."

if, in fact nothing else whatever were observable than the shape of the space occupied by the aether as it varies in time, we should have no ground for the assumption that aether consists of movable particles. But all the same we could characterise it as a medium having mass which is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it.

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places"

The state of the aether at every place determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the state of displacement of the aether.

The Milky Way moves through and displaces the aether.

The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether.

The Milky Way moves through and curves spacetime.

The Milky Way's halo is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the aether is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the aether is gravity.