Refuel on Kerbin

[AeroGav]

Well here I am in my Career game. I love space planes, in fact I'm terrible at rockets, so here I am trying to do stuff with aircraft as much as possible.

I've unlocked the Whiplash turboramjet, but I can't yet get a decent payload all the way to orbit. So, my space planes are sub orbital craft, which launch the rocket upper stage at high altitude, which i have time to stabilize the orbit of, before switching back the plane which i guide in for landing.

The problem is, the plane tends to come down the other side of the world from the space centre. Sub orbital flights you know, hazard of the job. Hypersonic 180 degree turns are not advisable, by the time i've slowed enough to make the turn, i'm so far downrange there's no way to get back on remaining fuel.

The problem is that you end up recovering only 25% of the cost of the plane for landing it so far away from the space centre, even though you put it down completely intact and all it needs is a tank of gas and it's good to go again. Use a rocket instead, get nothing back, and it works out cheaper because the launch cost is less

One answer would be to put airports all over Kerbin , but as a simpler workaround, why not make it possible to fill up on Liquid Fuel only any time you are stopped on the surface of Kerbin. Bringing over a tanker of jet fuel to a plane that's landed in a field so it can take off again is no big deal, after all the stuff's pretty ubiquitous, filling up solid motors, loading LOX or Hypergolics probably requires a space centre..

So, that way I can refuel my space plane on the ground and fly it back to the space centre before hitting the "recover vessel" button. A lot of leg work, and something you'd rather have abstracted out, but fairly realistic for a sub-orbital launcher.

[Guest]

This is already possible. Install Hyperedit and hit alt-h.

[ZooNamedGames]

Well there's a lot to say here...

The best suggestion is to use airbrakes and dive into the atmosphere so you can reduce speed as quickly as possible and allow yourself a possible 180.

As you said, it is weird that an expendable rocket in KSP is cheaper than a reuseable spaceplane. The logic in KSP is that a fuel tank and engine costs only a few 1000, and mission completions are worth more. In reality expendable rockets are expensive.

As to constant refueling upon landing... Yeah no. Easily OP.

Here's what I would suggest to solve your problem-

Deploy a resource sat into orbit above Kerbin so you can see where the resources are. Then you have two choices, either make a mobile ISRU refinery which your spaceplane can dock to- OR save yourself the trouble and make your spaceplane carry the refinery with! Then find a spot which is near where you usually slow down enough to land, and is near to a point with high resources, then mine, process and fly back off. Or go with idea A and just drive a mobile refinery there.

Also, in KSP, refueling SRBs are impossible. They do not permit refueling. It is 100% impossible to completely replicate a space shuttle mission since you can't reuse the boasters! LFO you can refuel. But in reality you do need a space center to do so... Granted you still need a bit of maintenance while refueling a craft with jet fuel... It isn't as easy as refueling your car.

[paul23]

As you said, it is weird that an expendable rocket in KSP is cheaper than a reuseable spaceplane. The logic in KSP is that a fuel tank and engine costs only a few 1000, and mission completions are worth more. In reality expendable rockets are expensive.

But lower than the maintenance on the space shuttle. - Hence the space shuttle project is halted and the follow up projects even by NASA are all unrecoverable main stages (though future projects might include autonomously returning booster stages).

[AeroGav]

As to constant refueling upon landing... Yeah no. Easily OP.

.

I dont know if the scripting allows such a check, but i was planning to make it so you can only refuel when the body you have landed on is Kerbin. And only with liquid fuel.

I'm working around this ATM by landing, then enabling the infinite fuel cheat to take off again and fly back to the space centre, abstracting the recovery flight from a downrange airbase a sub orbital launcher aircraft would have to make. Obviously, if i damage the plane putting it down, you're looking at an almost total loss - which is also realistic.

My sandbox aircraft with Rapiers and LV-Ns can do SSTO with good payload and IRSU, but I hit upon this idea to make the Whiplash planes work better. The wings, control surfaces, airbreathing engines, jet fuel tanks, and landing gear aren't useful above 40km, so if you can only lift so much rocket fuel, use it on the upper stage.

Bee-lining High Altitude Flight, my first proper spaceplane still had fixed gear (which tended to burn off), the "swivel" rocket, and 30 parts limit.

I still managed to launch probes with it - the jets were pod mounted, i moved the tailfins to the wingtips, and put a stack decoupler on the rear half of the fuselage. At 40km up, I'd jettison the tail, which contained the rocket motor, rocket fuel tank and probe stuff, fly that to orbit, and land the rest of the plane. Unfortunately that design became unstable when scaled up, so my current ride has an internal cargo bay most of the length of the fuselage (3 large type 2 cargo bays) which contains the upper stage. It's taken Jeb to the Mún, to Minmus, and sent probes out to Jool. The manned upper stages have small wings and parachutes (heatshields are for wimps!) and re-enter with everything attached. When I make a mission to Minmus, everything that leaves the runway comes back eventually.

[Seeker89]

Would the Davon supply mod be what you could be looking for?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37012-Part-1-0-4-Davon-supply-mod-v015

you could land, hit the supply button, get resupplied and take off.

I have also used USI Kolonization Systems.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79588-1-0-4-USI-Kolonization-Systems-%28MKS-OKS%29-%280-31-11%29-2015-10-16

There is a Logistics Hub, that I have used to send fuel around the planet and in space.

[hab136]

Bringing over a tanker of jet fuel to a plane that's landed in a field so it can take off again is no big deal,

If it's so easy, why not just go ahead and fly a tank of LiquidFuel to your ship? KAS would come in handy to link the planes and transfer the fuel, or you can just use docking ports.

You could also create a refueling station on the other side of the planet.. or several around the globe. Then you only have to fly to the nearest refueling station, instead of all the way back to Kerbin. Even better if these refueling stations can mine Ore and produce fuel on-site.

In fact you could combine those two - have a refueling ship that can land, mine Ore, and create LiquidFuel. In 1.0.5 there's going to be a 1.25m ISRU (and presumably smaller drills) which would make this much more viable.

[AlphaAsh]

KerbinSide provides a number of additional bases on Kerbin at which you can refuel and if open, will recover you if it's the nearest base.

[Commander Jebidiah]

You could make a refueling station and then ground dock with it using the claw. Or install kerbinside and make your own airport.

[AeroGav]

If it's so easy, why not just go ahead and fly a tank of LiquidFuel to your ship? KAS would come in handy to link the planes and transfer the fuel, or you can just use docking ports.

You could also create a refueling station on the other side of the planet.. or several around the globe. Then you only have to fly to the nearest refueling station, instead of all the way back to Kerbin. Even better if these refueling stations can mine Ore and produce fuel on-site.

In fact you could combine those two - have a refueling ship that can land, mine Ore, and create LiquidFuel. In 1.0.5 there's going to be a 1.25m ISRU (and presumably smaller drills) which would make this much more viable.

To do a tanker, it'd have to be able to fly from the KSC, out to wherever the space plane landed (potentially, the other side of the world), and have enough juice left to refuel the spaceplane with enough to get back to the space centre and have enough for itself. Sounds like a challenge, I'm going to try it ! The space plane itself is not a small aircraft.

As for the IRSU idea, that's definitely something i'll do, but I don't have that tech yet.

The problem with playing this way, is that it turns everything into such a marathon.

15 minutes - getting the space plane out of the atmosphere , separating the rocket stage, stabilizing it's orbit.

20-25 minutes - re-entry of spaceplane, glide and landing.

90 - minutes - fly subsonic tanker to the space plane.

25-30 minutes - fly space plane home at high altitude and mach 2

90 minutes - fly the tanker subsonically back to KSC

At this point, you discover you forgot to put an antenna on your probe stage, and need to redo the mission.

For the above reason, i think i'll look at Kerbinside, failing that, Davon.

The problem is starting to solve itself as my space planes get more capable. I built a type II with 4 long cargo bays and it flew alright, but the rocket stage within wobbled all over the place, fighting it to Duna and back left me with grey hairs. So, I'm going to concentrate on 3 cargo bays max, bring a little more fuselage tanks and maybe take the first stage all the way to orbit. As for Mun / Minmus, I might just bring the whole plane next time.

Edited November 2, 2015 by AeroGav