Why does this keep happening...

[LadyAthena]

The Ailerons or flaps or whatever on the wing bend the wrong way. This is me pushing S to bring the nose up. Hence why the rear wings are pointing down. But no matter what I do, how I mess around with it in the hangar, the wing ones always go backwards fighting what I want to do.

This happens even if I flip the Ailerons around in the hangar, they still bend down....

[selfish_meme]

Normally your wing ailerons are for roll only (this is not your problem, just a design tip) the wing ailerons are pushing the wing up in this configuration as the airflow is being directed downwards.

[Alshain]

I see nothing wrong in that image. They are bending the correct direction around the center of mass in order to pull up. The air hits the top of that winglet and forces the tail down.

EDIT: Aha, I knew I had answered this question with a picture once before. It was in my photobucket, I almost never use that account anymore. The blue lines represent airflow. The yellow represent rotation effect

Edited November 10, 2015 by Alshain

[LadyAthena]

I see nothing wrong in that image. They are bending the correct direction around the center of mass in order to pull up. The air hits the top of that winglet and forces the tail down.

EDIT: Aha, I knew I had answered this question with a picture once before. It was in my photobucket, I almost never use that account anymore. The blue lines represent airflow. The yellow represent rotation effect

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/Alshain/KSP/airflow.jpg

Check your picture again very closely with mine..

Yours is correct, mine is wrong. My elevators are not bending the right way, they are facing downwards, which will push my nose down. (I'm not talking about the back ones)

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Normally your wing ailerons are for roll only (this is not your problem, just a design tip) the wing ailerons are pushing the wing up in this configuration as the airflow is being directed downwards.

This is wrong... The elevators on my wings should be directing the air flow up to cause nose to go up as it pushes down on the wing. How do I know this? besides flying planes myself, when I click on them and click "Deploy" they'll bend upwards instead, which quickly causes my nose to go up.

[Alshain]

Check your picture again very closely with mine..

Yours is correct, mine is wrong. My elevators are not bending the right way, they are facing downwards, which will push my nose down. (I'm not talking about the back ones)

Sure they are. They are different elevators (yours are winglets, mine are control surfaces) so they look a little different but don't think of it as a part think of it as a broad surface. Look where the broad surface is on mine, and then look at yours. In your mind draw that arrow that indicates airflow, where does it hit? Will that push the tail down, or up? The tail needs to go down for the nose to go up.

Your mind is playing tricks on you because of the shape of those winglets, it's an optical illusion they are correct.

[ghpstage]

Check your picture again very closely with mine..

Yours is correct, mine is wrong. My elevators are not bending the right way, they are facing downwards, which will push my nose down. (I'm not talking about the back ones)

This is wrong... The elevators on my wings should be directing the air flow up to cause nose to go up as it pushes down on the wing. How do I know this? besides flying planes myself, when I click on them and click "Deploy" they'll bend upwards instead, which quickly causes my nose to go up.

Where is the CoM?

If it is located between the wings and the elevators then the game is doing it right.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Your vessels CoM os between the rear landing gear and the back of the fuel tank, right? This means the wings are attached ahead of the CoM, confusing KSP into thinking the control surfaces are also ahead of the CoM due to their attachment orientation. See this similar example which should help you understand:

For a fix, disable pitch control for them. They should never be used for pitch anyway, they should be reserved for flaps/spoilers and/or roll control.

Edited November 10, 2015 by ObsessedWithKSP

[Enorats]

I think Alshain is right actually, the wings are in front of the center of mass, so they're moving the elevators downwards to work with the rear control surfaces to rotate around the CoM. His is showing the same as yours, the forward surface is rotated "down" while the rear is "up". The only difference is that your wing surface is an elevator that can't move the other side of the wing up when the rear half moves down. Hence why pitch should be disabled for the wing surfaces.

[Alshain]

[Enorats]

Also, your wings might be a bit far ahead. The center of mass should be in front of the center of lift for the plane to fly properly. Ideally that is true both wet and dry.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Because KSP sees your ailerons as attached ahead of the CoM, it pitches them down in order to lift the nose. This is due to KSP not taking into account wing sweep wrt attachment. Like I said, disable pitch for those - even if they were acting and working correctly, you'd get very little pitch authority from them. Way more drag though, which is why wing surfaces are always used for flaps/spoilers rather than elevators

[Alshain]

I'm confused, are we talking about the ailerons or the elevators? She said one in the first post and another in the reply to me.

[BudgetHedgehog]

The Ailerons or flaps or whatever on the wing..

(I'm not talking about the back ones)

I think the confusion stems from the fact that elevators should not be on the main wing, but in this case, they are which means 'elevators' could refer to either. I ignored that and went for location on the vessel, which means the ailerons.

[Alshain]

I think the confusion stems from the fact that elevators should not be on the main wing, but in this case, they are which means 'elevators' could refer to either. I ignored that and went for location on the vessel, which means the ailerons.

It doesn't look to me like the control surfaces on the wings are moved at all. They look straight, which means they wouldn't affect pitch.

But I agree with you, elevators shouldn't be right there. Elevators (or canards) need to be far in front or far behind the CoM. Those won't have any pitch authority there.

[LadyAthena]

Your vessels CoM os between the rear landing gear and the back of the fuel tank, right? This means the wings are attached ahead of the CoM, confusing KSP into thinking the control surfaces are also ahead of the CoM due to their attachment orientation. See this similar example which should help you understand:

http://i.imgur.com/u3iPf1o.jpg

For a fix, disable pitch control for them. They should never be used for pitch anyway, they should be reserved for flaps/spoilers and/or roll control.

This answered it. It's just the game being confused, I fixed it by adjusting where the wings are. It corrected itself. Thanks

[selfish_meme]

The game is not confused, it is doing the correct thing, it is directing air downwards to lift the wing, which is exactly what flaps do. You are thinking about them as pitching around the com rather than making the wing go up. That is why the outward elevons on the wings are not usually involved with pitch control, and the inside elevons (or flaps) are utilised through the deployed toggle.

[Pecan]

Your vessels CoM os between the rear landing gear and the back of the fuel tank, right?...

If the CoM is behind the rear landing-gear then the plane won't stand on the runway, it'll tip back onto its tail (the rear gear being the fulcrum).

[Batmanpuncher]

In KSP as well as real life, pulling the back causes the nose to go up so you should be pressing W not S. There is no way,to my knowledge, to change this functionality except to change the controls themselves in the main menu.

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[Claw]

There's a lot of conflicting information on here, so maybe this will clear it up a little.

Control surfaces mounted like that on the wing, which control roll and pitch, are called Elevons (Elevator + Aileron). It appears to me that LadyAthena is talking about the Elevons, and not the horizontal slab.

ObsessedWithKSP is correct in this post. There is a pecularity with KSP (bug if you wish), in that how it determines when to reverse the control surface deflection is a bit wonky on swept wings.

LadyAthena's assessment ("It's just the game being confused, I fixed it by adjusting where the wings are.") is spot on.

Cheers,

~Claw