Massive ships vs small, really simple ones

[Awaras]

zeldafan99, the only time I use Mechjeb is when I send DonLorenzo a craft for his campaign so he has no trouble flying it, I personally do not like Mechjeb and do not like using it.

I\'m not the only one either, Mechjeb takes away too much control from the player, anyway this isn\'t a Mechjeb thread, it\'s a small verses large ship thread, I have my preference for small ships, and I hope that isn\'t endangered buy Nova\'s tweaks, whatever they will be.

I first used mechjeb when I was playing TogFox\'s campaign, I was dead set against it before that. Now, I have to say that it makes certain experiments easier but is practically a cheat since it completely eliminates the need for SAS/ASAS, which lets you make even smaller ships. Also, the sheer efficiency of it\'s landing autopilot makes adding a parachute on your ship completely unnecessary - you will waste more fuel lugging the parachute into orbit, to the mun and back again than Mechjeb will use to perform a powered landing on Kerbin...

I lean towards small efficient ship designs as well, which use all their engines from T+00:00 MET (and I have you to thank for that, Sal_vager because your munar skif inspired me to get out of my phase of building newbish multistage 30+ fuel tank rockets just to get a small lander on the mun when I was just starting out).

However, I do believe that the current engines need to be seriously rebalanced to make the game a little more realistic. I mean, I was able to leave kerbin SOI and go romping about the kerbol orbit and back to Kerbin with this little thing, even though I used the ZO2 mod that increases the \'dead weight\' of the ship by adding life support stuff:

(more about the kerbol excursion here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=14239.msg215961#msg215961 )

I honestly believe that this little thing would have enough delta V to fly to mars and do a powered landing there (if we had a mars - like planet in game), but probably not enough to return to kerbin. This kind of small single-stage-to-orbit craft should not be possible IMO, or it should be possible in the midgame, after a lot of research, and before you start researching reactionless propulsion and warp drives and what have you. I mean, we still do not have a function SSTO design in RL (although there has been a lot of attempts and it might be possible soon), let alone a single-stage-to-mars...

One solution I see is rebalancing the engines. The other solution would be adding more life support and other essential components that must be included in the design and which weigh more than the ZO2 mod components weigh...

Of course, I realize that the game is still in alpha, and that the finished game will be much better. Implementing a realistic drag model will force as to make sleeker, taller rockets instead of building wide, and the engines WILL be rebalanced, probably soon. \'Stock\' life support systems will be added as well.

[flaillomanz]

Because some of us like to appease the small Jebediah Kerman living inside all of us.

My inner Jeb is by no means small.

He is around about the size of the rockets I like to make... then watch slowly topple over on the launchpad unless I launch them within 10 frames of their being on the pad.

[GalaxyGryphon]

actuary now that i think about it... its the wight system that needs to be competently redone... i just looked now, decouplers are freaking heavy, and so are thrusters..... but the dry weight of a tank is only .3.... that means there about no reason for you to get rid of them because the amount of wght for the decouplers and the new thrusters completely goes over the about your losing from separating them.

[Ted]

actuary now that i think about it... its the wight system that needs to be competently redone... i just looked now, decouplers are freaking heavy, and so are thrusters..... but the dry weight of a tank is only .3.... that means there about no reason for you to get rid of them because the amount of wght for the decouplers and the new thrusters completely goes over the about your losing from separating them.

Yeah, a lot of people have said that before.

However, in real life the tanks they use are pretty large before they decouple them, so I guess it does make sense.

[RedDwarfIV]

Why build big ships?

Because small ships won\'t put things like this:

...into orbit.

[Ted]

Why build big ships?

Because small ships won\'t put things like this:

...into orbit.

What\'s the payload on that, I don\'t recognise the mod/plugin.

[Stevenator1]

Anyways, for a good example of Kosmos parts (even tough they are really overpowered/under massed) to get those massive stations into orbit, you need to have an exponentially larger delta v.

[samstarman5]

Bear in mind that right now, we are able to launch craft into space without at least two features necessary in our world: Life Support and Heat Shields.

Both of those alone would add enough weight to the point that the launch support requirement would balloon quickly for us if they become necessary. Who knows if Life Support(And that is more than just the gas needed for respiration. Consider biological waste management, food, and water) will become a needed feature unless our friendly little kerbals really are plants with very little needs. But heat shields will become a necessity for those craft we would like to bring back from space in one piece.

When you take that into account, of course smaller ships are practical for Munar flights. But when you are dealing with stages of game development, you have to accept that some things are going to have to be let go of eventually. Smaller craft may still be possible with stock parts as they get revised. They just won\'t be as small as they are now. I look forward to the challenges people take on to prove you don\'t have to bring a big gulp into space when a simple coffee cup will get you there. That is why we play KSP, after all.

[GWBBQ]

That\'s exactly what I do most of the time, but how is crossfeeding fuel and dropping pairs similar to asparagus? I thought asparagus was a particularly nasty vegetable.

Also, grill it, sprinkle with melted butter, salt lightly, and serve with steak.

[LongHairedHuman]

I really should build another big-ass ship, like my destroyer:

That thing barely got into orbit, and took me multiple launches. It also happened quite often that a whole row of engines fell off while launching, though that didn\'t matter that much in the end.

I love big ships ^^

[Ascensiam]

I really should build another big-ass ship, like my destroyer:

That thing barely got into orbit, and took me multiple launches. It also happened quite often that a whole row of engines fell off while launching, though that didn\'t matter that much in the end.

I love big ships ^^

Wait what? The Republic of Licentia? What\'s your role in that?

[Markus Reese]

Personally, I like the build one for the better control it allows me to bring with the ship. Setting up specific orbits and choosing landing locations, delivering payloads needs the exponentially larger rocket. You need more engines to lift a payload, and that means more engines and fuel to lift that fuel. Fortunately that is why I have a separate modded version of ksp. One for playing with default stuff, the other to make the rockets using the big mod items.

It is the objects and the huge clusters of engines that really causes all the lag. A few large ones run alot better, and as such, allows more fun. With alot of the added objects, you can do cool stuff like sat networks, and lunar colonies.