Forgotten Space Program

[waterlubber]

 

Nice, enjoying the series so far, do you have a modlist?

[Cydonian Monk]

4 minutes ago, waterlubber said:

 

Nice, enjoying the series so far, do you have a modlist?

The list in the very first post is up to date, I think. Might add Space-Y and some other stuff in the future, if 1.1 is the panacea everybody seems to think it will be. 

[DMSP]

Anything cool coming soon?

[Cydonian Monk]

12 minutes ago, DMSP said:

Anything cool coming soon?

Maybe tonight. Depends on how much time I have when I get home. Busy week, just like the weekend. I did have to fix a run-away bug in the persistence file related to that last mission.... There were bits of debris that caused some sort of weird nullref chain. Likely related to the "destructive welding" incident.

[DMSP]

On 2/10/2016 at 3:44 PM, Cydonian Monk said:

Maybe tonight. Depends on how much time I have when I get home. Busy week, just like the weekend. I did have to fix a run-away bug in the persistence file related to that last mission.... There were bits of debris that caused some sort of weird nullref chain. Likely related to the "destructive welding" incident.

"Destructive Welding" Heh.

Well good luck getting everything back online.

[Cydonian Monk]

2 minutes ago, DMSP said:

"Destructive Welding" Heh.

Well good luck getting everything back online.

Getting it up and running again was relatively easy.... had to delete a 0-part "debris" craft and the rogue antenna from the persistence file. (Chalk this one up to "things not to do when using KAS and/or IR.") Just to be safe I deleted every other piece of debris named "Nitrogen TC-11", and the save loaded perfectly afterwards. 

Speaking of Infernal Robotics... as I've not been using it or SCANsat, I'm planning to drop them from the modslist temporarily, and perhaps a couple other plugins. Things are getting SSSLLLLOOOOOWWWWWW in the old framerate department, and buying any extra process cycles I can will help keep things going until KSP 1.1 hits.

First stage of the next big project is in orbit, so we should have an update on that tonight or tomorrow morning, depending.

Took a break from the game midweek to explore American Truck Simulator, which runs smooth as milk on a flat glass pane sitting atop a silk sheet when compared to KSP. Can't wait for that game to include the parts of the country I drive on a regular basis (I-69/I-30/I-40/I-65/I-64/I-79). But that's not KSP.....

[Geschosskopf]

36 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Took a break from the game midweek to explore American Truck Simulator, which runs smooth as milk on a flat glass pane sitting atop a silk sheet when compared to KSP. Can't wait for that game to include the parts of the country I drive on a regular basis (I-69/I-30/I-40/I-65/I-64/I-79). But that's not KSP.....

I used to drive trucks over those roads pretty regularly.

I find it strange that folks make such games and even stranger that anybody would buy one.  I didn't get a whole lot of enjoyment out of doing the real thing, what with my dispatcher frequently screwing me out of good loads, the truck often breaking down in the middle of nowhere, and dealing with the diesel bears, lazy lumpers, idiot 4-wheelers, and winter weather.  Plus of course being away from home 26 days or more every month and not making much money for all the effort.

So I'm curious.  What's the attraction of such a game?

[Cydonian Monk]

5 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

So I'm curious.  What's the attraction of such a game?

I'm not entirely certain. It's really more of a trucking company simulator with an emphasis on driving, with the business aspects gamified. No different than any other business simulator, which is the part that looks attractive to me. A bit like Elite: Dangerous or Privateer in that respect. And it was $17 or something cheap.

The driving can be a bit peaceful at times. There's none of the stress of everything you mentioned (aside from the occasional idiot in a Prius jumping in front of you at 30MpH while you're cruising around Nevada at 80), and you can just get out and drive. 

I did something similar for a year and a half after college, though our trucks were all fixed frame boxtrucks, no semis (so we could skirt CDL laws). One of the most pleasant parts of it was just being out on the road, even in winter. (Getting a truck stuck sideways on a frozen creek that doubled as a county road is more fun than I care to remember... or not.) But again that wasn't long-haul, so I was home every night. This game captures a bit of that, in a sorta-free-world exploration type of game. In 1:24th scale near as I can tell.

Otherwise it doesn't have much appeal to it. Parking trailers is still a [colorful four or five letter word].

Along those lines, I know many professional railroaders that are into model railroading (both real and virtual), and a few still happy ones that want nothing to remind them of work when they're off-duty. I'm 100% certain none of my cousins would go for a Fire or EMS simulator (no, I'm not talking about Surgeon Simulator....) though most of them love their work. So it's hard to say what pulls certain folks to certain games.

[Evanitis]

57 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

What's the attraction of such a game?

Hope I won't get stoned for chiming in the off-topic part of the thread.

I can totally see why someone who did the real thing as a day-job isn't attracted to this game. Almost anything done that regularly gets dull pretty fast. Logging a few hundred hours into such game in a short period would probably be soul-crushing too. But for an outsider, doing a simulator run sometimes in a comfortable home after a beer or two is very relaxing.

But it got me with the local (online) radios. I kinda' never encounter American news, not to mention local broadcasts and small talkshows or even commercials. I hear music I'd normally never hear. Or I tuned it off if I did, but in ATS it feels all right. I can change to the next station of that region. Feels like GTA, just with the real thing. It's very immersive. Hell, I even enjoyed this part in ETS, where most of the time I didn't understand a word.

 

Ahh, almost forgot. The Forgotten Space Program is a totally awesome read.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Evanitis

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Otherwise it doesn't have much appeal to it. Parking trailers is still a [colorful four or five letter word].

 

1 hour ago, Evanitis said:

But for an outsider, doing a simulator run sometimes in a comfortable home after a beer or two is very relaxing.

But it got me with the local (online) radios.

Ahh, almost forgot. The Forgotten Space Program is a totally awesome read.

Well, thanks for answering my question

I had Sirius satellite radio so I could listen to the same channel coast-to-coast, which was amazingly helpful.

Anyway, let's not forget the Forgotten Space Program

 

[Cydonian Monk]

Mission Improbable

"We're now tracking well over 320 pieces of Stuff and 20 or so Things, not including our own satellites." MacFred posted an updated map view on the conference room's big board, scrolling out from Kerbin into the greater Solar System. "As expected there's considerably more around Kerbin, but there appears to be Stuff on or orbiting every known planet and moon. And thanks to the comms network Sieta discovered on Baile Speir we know a few of the frequencies and protocols used by the older equipment. At the same time the Magnesium satellites have been more useful than we could've hoped, though the real heroes are the Neon Heavies."

"How so?"

"Noise, Gene. Radio noise. While the Magnesiums have shown us flares to track, the Neon Heavies have just been listening. And there are still lots of things talking, just, we can't talk to them. Or don't know how to talk to them. Or they're talking and not listening."

"Ja, like on that KerbSpace website all ze jungenkerben are using."

"The what now Wernher?"

"KerbSpace. On ze DubDubDub."

Elkin looked up from his notes, face contorted in confusion. "Aren't we already in space? Well, not right this minute obviously, but..."

The Boss's hand raised and the conversation refocused. "What's the situation at Jool?"

MacFred flipped through some notes and pulled up the Joolian System on the big board. "Well, as we'd expect with five moons, Jool shows the highest concentration of noise outside of Kerbin. There are a couple candidate Things, but almost all of what we've recorded falls under Stuff. We're fairly certain one of the Thing-candidates is a communications link, but so far it's refusing to respond to our commands."

"Ok, change of plans." The Boss stood and tossed a set of folders onto the conference table. "Your next mission, should you choose to accept it or not, is to send astrokerbs to Jool."

The room gasped. Wernher jumped up and started pacing. 

"Jool? Mein kraken. This, but, yet, ... Why? Shouldn't vee go to ze Mün und ze Minmus first? Our crews have never flown beyond Close Kerbin Orbit...."

"I have" Thomlock interjected.

"... Ve don't know what effect such travel und such time will have on the biology. And the food needed? The amount of time spent there? The fuel? Impossible."

"The requirements are measurable," countered The Boss, "and noted in those plans. And they'll be going to the Mün first to test the ships."

"What about power?" Mardi waved a stack of papers from one of the folders in the air. "The life support's ventilation system alone will use more power than our best solar arrays can generate at Jool."

"You won't use solar, at least not entirely." The Boss pointed upwards at nothing specific. "There are three Things in orbit that have RTGs attached to them, and good odds there's nore. Some may have decayed beyond use, others might still be salvageable. You'll use those. You also won't need to launch habs for the crew. There are enough extra modules at Kelgee to meet the requirements, enough to build the first ships I have in mind. Most of these ships will be assembled from recycled parts."

Wernher sat down and started furiously scribbling notes. "Why? Why this sudden und dangerous change of plan?"

"None of the Things we've stumbled on have had any crews, living or dead, and none of their notes hint as to where they went. If there's anyone still alive, if they're out there and not dependent on Kerbin, they're at Laythe. Simple math."

Gene looked around the room to get a consensus. Most were still in shock, some were absentmindedly munching on crunchy snacks. Gletrix was staring through the window at something outside. One of the interns was using the spring in his ink pen to launch it into the air like a rocket. Nobody seemed to object or raise any other questions. "Ok, we'll do it."

"Good. Assemble your teams and get to work. This meeting will self destruct in five seconds."

"What?!"

"Sorry, old joke. Good luck."

"Excuse me," Mortimer raised his hand, casually pointing his gold-plated pen at nothing in particular while reading over the plans. "How do you propose we pay for this Jool-Shot?"

"I'm glad you asked." The Boss waved towards one of the doors. "Would someone kindly let the World's First representative in?"

The door opened and an exasperated-looking kerbal wheeled in a cart stacked dangerously high with plaques and reward envelopes. He started into his speech without delay. 

"We at the World's First Record Keeping Society have discussed your recent accomplishments. Namely establishing proof of objects in orbit of and/or landed on Moho, Eve, Gilly, Duna, Ike, Dres, Jool, Laythe, Tylo, Vall, Pol, Bop, and Eeloo; and suborbital and atmospheric flight at Duna. We understand the origins of these craft are largely unknown, and have decided that, in the absence of the space program responsible, you should be awarded for their accomplishments."

"Atmospheric flight at Duna?"

Macfred shook his head. "Don't ask."

The Boss handed the thick stack of award checks to his accountant. "Does this answer your question?" Mort's smile was the only answer needed. 

--

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

The first ship to visit Jool would make use of one of the three-hitchhiker-unit habitation modules at Kelgee. (Of which there were five.) The vessel would remain as a microgravity ship, meaning its crew would be without the familiar downward force of gravity for several years. Thankfully weightlessness has only a minimal impact on melted cheese and corn chips.

 

Project Silicon would oversee the build-out of this Deep Space Habitat (DSH), reusing as much of Kelgee Station and other such Things as they could. Including two of the solar array armatures (four of which were no longer used in Kelgee's current configuration). The only completely new portions of the ship would be the life support and propulsion modules. Life support as the ancients apparently had no need of such, and propulsion because nothing so far discovered would be able to propel such a heavy craft to Jool and back inside the natural lifetime of the crew.

The purpose of their mission was twofold: Conduct a cursory survey of the Joolian System and its moons; and Conduct a ground survey of Laythe by aircraft. A second (or third, or fourth) ship would be sent along with landers for the smaller moons, a small shuttle to get between the interesting points, the aircraft needed for flying around Laythe, a small surface base for refueling said Laythe aircraft, and the Laythe Descent/Ascent Vehicle (LDAV). A third ship would include extra fuel for orbital operations and the return journey, while a fourth would transport several communications and mapping satellites. 

The Silicon DSH would be tested first with a trip to the Mün, a rather short shakedown cruise for a ship expected to be in use for seven or more years. (Unfortunately the agency was lacking in the technology needed to develop a drive capable of propelling the Silicon DSH to Jool, so such a mission was absolutely essential. Science points don't grow in cheese afterall.)

The first step in assembling the DSH was to round up all of the old RTGs. To meet basic electrical needs, the designers estimated they would need at least 4 of the older ones, provided they were still in good condition. They were as-of-yet unable to produce such a magical device, nor were they able to refine the blutonium needed to power it, but there were rumours circulating that AIES had one such device in the works should the older ones not pan out.

--

Nitrogen TC-12

Gletrix and Rondous were chosen as the first assembly crew for the Silicon DSH-1. They would dock at Kelgee Station and begin retrofitting the crew modules while awaiting the DSH core to arrive. Once that was at the station, Rondous would venture out and remove the various RTGs from the ships docked to Kelgee and transfer them to the core. The duo would then venture out to other locations in Low-Kerbin orbit to hopefully recover more dangerous and hot nuclear material.

 

Another standard Nitrogen TC class, another perfect launch. The crew were delivered to Kelgee after less than one orbit. To facilitate the latter portion of their mission, the upper stage of the Nitrogen was left fully fueled at launch, and as such still had half of its fuel reserve available when the Nitrogen TC-12 arrived.

 

 

Safely docked, the two began work on what would soon become the home of four lucky kerbals for a five year mission to Jool.

--

Silly Silicon

 

The life support core of the Silicon DSH consisted of seven years worth of food, five years worth of water and oxygen, a carbon scrubber and a water purifier, and attachment nodes for the utility trusses. (The two trusses would include four solar arrays borrowed from Kelgee, four radiators, more batteries, and perhaps some other amenities.) 

A utility tunnel runs down the length of the core, with access to all four of the life support pods as well as the electronics for vessel control. Finally, the ship's short-range communications equipment was attached to the "spine plates", structural members to be used to strut the fore and aft sections of the craft together once the drive section was in orbit. 

Launching such a beast was outside of the capabilities of all of the launch vehicles presently in use, which presented quite a problem. Wernher had something of a solution: Eight "V-2" LV-01s strapped to the side of an LV-06 Cadence rocket with an SRB kick-motor inserted into the core of the same. (There is a void inside of the LV-06's eight motors where just such an SRB can be attached.)

 

The liftoff was glorious. Sixteen liquid-fuelled engines and one tiny RT-10 "Hammer" SRB provided just enough thrust to lift the seven years worth of food, five years worth of supplies, and other miscellaneous equipment off the launchpad. The command center broke into open celebration as the Silicon 1 sailed upwards out of the billowing cloud of smoke and vapor.

And then gradually the room fell silent as the massive tower of burning death began to turn towards them. Eyes were glued to the windows as it roared to the West, soon out of sight but not out of mind.

"Are rockets supposed to turn West?"

 

"Solid booster burnout," called the Booster officer. "Stage 1 separation."

"Flight, RSO. That booster is going to crash on the VAB."

"Copy Range. Signal shelter in place. Issue the abort to Si-1 once the bulk of the rocket is clear of the space center." 

 

The VAB was strong enough to withstand a single Hammer (having survived at least three Fleas), but the damage done to the roof of the building might cause issues should anyone want to land there. More concerning was the Silicon 1 was now veering towards the densely populated towns West of the space center. Towns where many of the employees and interns lived. Town where much of their funding came from.

This launch was highly unlikely to help their reputation.

"Flight, RSO. Si-1 negative Abort. Zero control."

 

Nor would it help their bank balance. Much of the money from the World's First awards had been spent on upgrading facilities and on adding variety to the eternally molten fountain of cheese in the snack room. (Determined snackers now had a choice of liquid kheddar, kolby jack, feta, and other such diverse cheeses.) This was not an inexpensive launch.

"Flight, RSO. Debris projected to fall short of inhabited areas, 9 kilometers due west of the space center. May want to step away from the windows though."

Gene let out a sigh and shepherded a few other curious onlookers away from the windows. He was staring blankly at the press gallery at the back of the room when the concussive blast from 180 tonnes of fuel and hardware being atomized caused the building to rattle. Nearly 140,000 funds worth of rocket; seven years of food and five years worth of supplies, now burning in a crater somewhere to their West. The oxygen-fed fires would burn for days.

 

 

"GC, Flight."

"Go ahead flight."

"Lock the doors."

...

Which was remarkably easy to do, as the debris from the Silicon 1 crash had somehow corrupted the universe and made it impossible to open the doors. Or the save.

Yay.

 

Time for a redesign. And for a quick cleaning of the old persistence file. And for a quick snack. Or maybe dinner.

 

Navigation: Next Post

Edited December 4, 2016 by Cydonian Monk

[Matuchkin]

Dang...

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Mission Improbable

Which was remarkably easy to do, as the debris from the Silicon 1 crash had somehow corrupted the universe and made it impossible to open the doors. Or the save.

Yay.

Bummer, but very well-written nonetheless,and quite enjoyable to nonparticipants

 

[DMSP]

That was one launch.

I personally think that was a beautiful rocket, sad to see it go.

Well, keep going, get up, and go to Jool!

[Cydonian Monk]

On 2/14/2016 at 10:56 AM, DMSP said:

Well, keep going, get up, and go to Jool!

Sounds like a plan!

--

Balanced Imbalance

A quick 5 minute review of the Silicon 1 launch showed the issue was caused in part by an imbalance in the payload. Despite the food modules being directly offset, the oxygen and water modules were opposite of each other. So the mass being slightly imbalanced, combined with the payload "lobes" being 45 degrees offset from the pitch/yaw axes was more than the avionics could handle.

So the payload was rebalanced and the life support module slightly redesigned. The changes allowed the interns to cram in a couple more years worth of water and oxygen. They also added an extra reaction wheel to the "propulsion unit" upper stage to provide a bit more in the way of avionics control.

 

Since the craft was already too heavy for the LV-06, Wernher spent a few minutes upgrading the design to provide a bit more ooomph. Thus was born the LV-07 Crescendo. With 8 Tantares-built "Walrus" main engines (with 4 nozzles each), and 8 smaller motors for pitch and yaw authority, the LV-07 sported an impressive 40 fire-breathing nozzles at its base.

And it was more than capable to lofting the Silicon 2 into orbit. 

 

 

The second stage was powered by a twin-chambered AIES Produl VR-2 engine, which aside form having issues with gimbaling, was otherwise perfect. (I'm not sure what exactly was going wrong, but I had to abort the flight control program with the second stage as it was completely unable to alter its pitch with engine gimbal. The rest of the launch was conducted HOTAS.)

 

 

The second stage was (by design) unable to place the entire payload into orbit, so the task was finished by the third stage. This third stage would do double duty as the ship's "propulsion module" during the initial craft tests. Once initial testing was complete, the Silicon 2's third stage would remain in orbit to be used as a space tug. (The trip to the Mün would require another, larger propulsion module.)

It took at least two more orbits for the rendezvous with Kelgee Station to be completed. Initial approach was performed in the dark, as it only fitting. The final docking took place just as the sun limped over the limb of Kerbin.

(For some unknown reason the RCS and SAS systems kept flipping on and off during this docking, which made things far more difficult than they should've been. Given that Kelgee Station now has 516 parts probably gives some idea as to what kind of frame rate I'm getting while in its vicinity, and that lag is a likely cause of the weird control glitches.)

 

 

--

Some Assembly Required

With the Silicon 2 docked up, Rondous was ready to head out and start his EVA work. First target was the RTG on the former SSTO docked at Kelgee. With that RTG safely in his bag-of-holding inspired inventory, he then made his way to the (once critically problematic) science pod. In addition to a few science instruments, the science pod included the second RTG at Kelgee Station. 

 

 

Until the rest of the Silicon DSH's bits and pieces were in orbit, the plan was to store the two RTGs inside the "trunks" of the ship. Afterwards the two RTGs, and any others harvested by the crew, would be attached to the ends of the solar trusses. 

The science instruments were installed straight away.

Once final bit of work awaited Rondous - moving four batteries from the Silicon 2 to the habitat module being retrofitted at Kelgee. This move, as well as the addition of a set of cargo bags from a resupply craft to be launched later, would allow the habitat and its crew to survive a short amount of time should they become disconnected from the rest of the ship.

 

 

With these tasks done, Rondous headed back inside and took the rest of the day off. Soon he and Gletrix would need to leave the station in search of at least two more RTGs.

 

Navigation: Next Post

Edited December 4, 2016 by Cydonian Monk

[Geschosskopf]

Yay, recycling junk to make life more worth living in the present!  Very Fallout 4-ish   I was wondering what your ultimate purpose was in having all this old abandoned junk in the game was, now I know.  Ingenious.  I hope your Kerbals have several trans-Atlantic cable reels of duct tape with them

 

[Cydonian Monk]

3 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Yay, recycling junk to make life more worth living in the present!  Very Fallout 4-ish   I was wondering what your ultimate purpose was in having all this old abandoned junk in the game was, now I know.  Ingenious.  I hope your Kerbals have several trans-Atlantic cable reels of duct tape with them

 

Thanks.

And thankfully duct tape hasn't been added as a consumable resource yet.  

[RocketSquid]

If you want to lower Kelgee's part count, you could try UbioZur Welding and some behind the scenes module replacement to reduce partcount while preserving appearance.

[Cydonian Monk]

17 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

If you want to lower Kelgee's part count, you could try UbioZur Welding and some behind the scenes module replacement to reduce partcount while preserving appearance.

It's an idea, but here soon it'll lose 200 parts or so and be back to normal.

[mole55]

Will the Aluminium Five return?

[Cydonian Monk]

5 hours ago, mole55 said:

Will the Aluminium Five return?

Simple answer: Yes! There'll be at least one aircraft sent to Laythe, a jet that has yet to be designed and tested. In addition, at least one of the Al-5 will be going with it to Jool. Possibly one of the two in orbit now.

[Choctofliatrio2.0]

Was that RTG description a reference to The Martian?

[Cydonian Monk]

1 hour ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

Was that RTG description a reference to The Martian?

Yes, it almost certainly has to be. Sadly it wasn't renamed to "Hot Stuff", though I suppose that's only from the movie. 

[Garibaldi2257]

not really only from the movie, if I remember right, the song is referenced in the book too.

[Cydonian Monk]

4 minutes ago, Garibaldi2257 said:

not really only from the movie, if I remember right, the song is referenced in the book too.

Doesn't seem to be in the Kindle edition, but it might've changed in later versions of the novel.