Why not in a virtual reality?

[Knaapie]

Hello guys, I'm new to the forum.

 

Have played the game quite a lot and fell in love at the moment I got completely lost in space with my first space flight "aiming" for the mun. And finally got that succesful landing (yay), to only find out I didnt bring enough fuel and that I had stranded Jebediah   .

 

I had to save him !

 

And now, after a long time, I was thinking:

"How amazing would a first landing be in a virtual reality" ? The technology is there right?

If you ask me, the core of the game is the experience of being an engeneer and an astronaut at the same time.

You could potentially walk around your ship in the VAB, Land your mk1 lander can, while looking through the window at the planet and be amazed at the feeling that you are actually the one doing this, in your virtual "real" world.

Not to even mention the marketing stunts that this would enable.

Would this be possible ?

 

Was my first post off-topic? ^^ did not yet read the rules.

peace

[Gaarst]

KSP's VR is stored in some dark place even darker than the dark place in which are stored multiplayer, multithreading and gas planet 2, it's called imagination (some custom engines also hang around there).

Seriously now, this would be a great thing but requires too much rework on the game system/UI to be even considered by the devs.

Also, this (I guess it fits in the UI section). More a WNTS thing than a common suggestion but the change is new, and I'm slow to change my habits.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Gaarst

[Ten Key]

Honestly I don't think this is too far off, particularly the "land while looking out the window" idea. You can already do this with a monitor using the "IVA" view-- replacing the monitor with one of the VR headsets doesn't seem like that big of a stretch. And there are already mods available that allow for EVA using a first person "helmet cam" view. 

Walking around a rocket in the VAB is a little more out there, but that might work well for some sort of "museum mode" where you could "walk" around a hanger filled with hardware from your previous missions. 

I don't think it's going to be much longer before some modders start in on VR, and when they do, it's going to be awesome. 

[Knaapie]

13 hours ago, Ten Key said:

I don't think it's going to be much longer before some modders start in on VR, and when they do, it's going to be awesome. 

exactly.

 

I've done my research this time around and found out that someone already tried to mod VR for KSP (2 years ago :/ . Unity 5 seems to support VR, so why not ?

VR games should be about exploration, discovering new worlds, great views, an adventure to a place you can only dream about. KSP does all of that, while potentially giving the option to take your uncomfortable VR mask off and work on your new ship behind your flatscreen. This unique feature to the game can create a balance between prolonged play-ability and being overwhelmed by your imagination.

I am no programmer, but lets assume that incorporating VR has huge programming issues. That it will be costly and that it will not increase profits. Let's assume that there are competitors far ahead with these ideas (EVE, lunar flight). These are real world valid reasons why no-one should do it. and we would put the idea back in the dark place where it came from.

 

Does that mean that we should abandon our "far fetched" dreams? Live with profit as the only valid incentive ? Should we not aim for greatness, because someone is ahead?

No.. we should not. This forum is meant to inspire, it is meant to express our dreams and maybe... however unlikely, maybe, some great programmer will be inspired to make our dreams come true.

 

[ScootsMcGoots]

So, sorry I am usually a lurker but I had to chime in on this. I have to disagree with everyone who doesn't think this is an awesome idea. I have been wanting this since it has first been even hinted it way back. I think the modding community will get behind it once the new Oculus hits. There have already been people who have done it with the old ones, and head tracking is available from KerbTrack already.

Really though, the thing that will make it all fit together will be Oculus CV1 with the head tracking, and the Touch controllers. I imagine doing moon landings from the lander can, and leaning forward to see better out the window just how much farther the ground is. I imagine my hands being turned into Kerbal hands sitting in the cockpit, moving the throttle, actually reaching out to touch the buttons on my rasterprop monitors, flicking switches. Imagine being EVA in first person, and the Touch controllers are your RCS control. You could rotate your wrist to get your translation/rotation due to the constellation/accelerometer tracking.  To me, that is what is going to give the immersion and make it worth it.

It could be even possible to build your ship entirely in the new Rift using the Touch controllers. All of functions for accurate placement could be there. It would be nearly Ironman-esque. Reach out and place a part, spin it around.

It would be so cool to not only design your own rocket, but then to get to really fly it and do the mission. It would completely enhance pure IVA flight. I think it would add a capability and depth to the game that can't be matched. Anyone who has ever played pure IVA nows how much of a pain it is to keep clicking around just to move the camera. Zoom in, check that screen, zoom out, move camera, zoom in check that gauge...etc. Instead just move your head, lean in to see closer, reach out and touch the button you want.

And there is no reason it should not be even MORE possible with 1.1 with Unity 5s direct support for VR. As I understand it, it can be as simple as a checkbox. The Touch integration would definately take some work. But I'm sure its nothing this community can't handle. Kerbal stuff was down for less than 8 hours and new plans were being organized, and within 48 a new site up, and now its almost like nothing ever happened. So I can't agree that it won't happen or is a dumb idea.

[StarManta]

Start thinking of (and suggesting) the prerequisites that would be needed for such a thing to be viable. Most significantly: IVA Improvements out the wazoo. KSP's IVA is nowhere near ready to be an exclusive gameplay mode. Yes, some Youtubers have done it, and we're so in awe of them precisely because KSP makes it so hard. (and every single one of those videos was done on a tried and true spacecraft and very simple, straightforward flight plan - never one they're trying for the first time in that view, and never anything harder than landing on the Mun)

- Most or all of the IVA views simply don't offer enough information in a readable way. A lack of map view is key. No fuel gauge or staging views. No overheating status warnings. The navball doesn't show sufficient information either, if you can't augment it with the external view. In short, we need a lot of different ways to view information in IVA. Basically we need little screens in the IVA that we can change to show whatever we need at any given time.

- As a corollary to this, we definitely, absolutely need external mountable cameras that can be viewed in the IVA.

- It would be very jarring, I would think, to have the IVA throttle in one position in VR but your actual throttle is in a different place (and having a hardware throttle/joystick is still going to be the best way to control this - those general-purpose 3D controllers aren't going to cut it for precision maneuvers.) So we need the ability to create our own IVA layout to match our cockpit to what's on our desk.

- Many components are impossible to control in certain scenarios without right-clicking on them in external view and choosing stuff from the menu. We need to be able to control things like science experiments, air intakes, fuel transfers, docking nodes, and so on from buttons in the cockpit. (and I don't mean control groups, they are woefully inadequate as a standalone control method.) Basically, imagine playing KSP without a mouse, and everything you can't do, needs to be added to IVA

Those are off the top of my head, but there's probably more design considerations. If Squad decided to add VR to KSP today, all of these things would have to be added first, and IMHO each one of them is big enough for its own release version. That said, these are all good things to suggest whether we want VR or not, so let's focus on the prerequisites before trying to jump to the end!

Edited February 25, 2016 by StarManta

[ScootsMcGoots]

Actually pretty much all of those IVA enhancements you mentioned have already been implemented as some of the more common mods. Rasterprop Monitor handles most of it. It gives you exactly what you asked for. Screens inside of the ship that you can switch to different functions. Several other mods integrate with it.

-Docking port alignment indicator. Actually I prefer docking with this over anything else.

-Hullcam. Cameras you can place outside of your ship and switch between.

-Nav Utilities. Makes landing at airports with planes much much easier. From far away you can get glide slope, and runway alignment.

-SCANsat-See the scans of some planet you have done and pick a landing location.

-Vessel viewer- lets you see what the state of different parts of your vessel are in. Fuel, overheating, and science taking all included

-ALCOR/ASET props- these are actually a capsule part as well as a group of widgets(gauges,lights,fuel bars) for helping people make custom IVA layouts. And they are really amazing looking.

My point is, most of the work to make IVA workable has been done. I agree something has to be done for some right click parts, but that could be managed through a small mod as well that brings all of those devices you could want to modify to a menu on a Rasterprop screen the way vessel viewer does.

I agree about the joystick control, and I love flying by joystick, but that could probably be done with the touch controllers as well depending on their sensitivity. Only drawback being no spring/active feedback. But you could really just put the one controller down and use the joystick for the maneuver. Maybe by putting down your right Touch controller it can detect that and your ingame hand moves to the ingame joystick in the cockpit. Little to no cognitive dissonance. The Touch controllers also have touch sensors on the pointer and thumb, make it so when touching them, "joystick" controls are active.

I agree that the map view is a special case. Maybe it could be justified to pure IVA guys as a "zoomed in screen". but wouldn't it be super cool to see the solar system in VR? feel like god looking down upon it and decide where to venture next by looking across the solar system. Even node handling could be done with the Touch controllers. Imagine reaching out to tease your node bigger or smaller. Having a hard time seeing that anti-normal arm because radial is in the way?? don't click and drag to move the view, move your head. OR, instead of trying to click those stupid little symbols, just reach out into free space and click and pull the controllers and they can tell which one you are trying to modify by hand orientation. Like stretching a rubberband between your hands.

tl;dr. It is possible now to do all IVA (with exception of map view ). Kerbal with VR would be awesome.

[Nightshift83]

With all the mods avaiable it's all possible (don't know about the VR-device but that can't be that hard). It would only require the right combination of mods and nothing more complicated than handling the cfg file..

Back in the days some modders did this with 'Enemy Engaged' a very cool helicopter simulation and it took me a long time (and the monitors of my flatmates) but the webcam was dirt cheap and it was such a great experience..

Of course you will most likely feel that what you do is a workaround (to some extend) but until KSP 2 - I think if you really want it you can do it yourself.

 

Didn't know about KerbTrack, btw good thing to know if I ever replace that old notebook against a decent destktop-pc..

[lajoswinkler]

For starters, install Hullcam and activate the camera view from Kerbals themselves. It's pretty awesome.

[Guest]

Meet le KerbTrack.

Lets you control the in-game cameras using TrackIR, Facetracknoir, Oculus Rift, etc.