Modeling KSP with Gmax

[Reason]

Good afternoon

As the title says "modeling with Gmax" why I said that was because I'm a 3d modeler who knows my way around Gmax all too well I been using this program for a few years and modeled a fair number of railroading models for Trainz, there not too much I don't already know about gmax my question is this. Can I export a gmax mesh into KSP format with out luring a hole new program. all I need to know is how to set up the attachment points to join models to gather and file set up. Trainz uses silmer set ups with its config formats. Ones I know what tools I need the rest is a cakewalk.

I enjoy making things and always up for new ideas and tips.

thanks gentlemen and bewell.

[NecroBones]

As long as you can export to a format that Unity understands, you should be OK. It'll take Autodesk/FBX, Collada/DAE, and several others. From there, you just need Unity 4.2.2 (don't use anything newer until we get KSP 1.1), and install the KSP Part Tools into it. From that point, it's the same no matter which modeler you used.

 

[artwhaley]

http://www.turbosquid.com/Forum/Index.cfm/stgAct/PostList/intThreadID/17331

 

That link might help!

That said, because I like answering questions people didn't ask...  I'd strongly suggest considering blender...  not because it's necessarily any better (it probably is) or easier to use (it probably ISN'T) but because so many of us in the community are using it that it's much easier to get help when you reach the end of your ability.  That said, if you're certain you'll never need any modelling help, or can find it on the Turbosquid forums...  then just figure out how to convert it to something Unity likes and run with it!  

[Reason]

Good day

The links on Gmax are no longer working I keep getting a unable to find page error I think the OP shod remove them or fix them.

I found nothing helpful on google ether. Looks like no new models will be made for KSP. 

[artwhaley]

I...don't see links in the OP?  A quick google search on Gmax will tell you it's an outdated and unsupported product.  I wouldn't recommend anyone learn it for any reason at this point.  But the OP already knows it and was wondering if that knowledge could be adapted instead of replaced?

[landeTLS]

I read up on the subject of gmax and i found out a few things. 1 it has no native fbx, dae or obj exporter. There where some maxscript based exporters available online in the past but the links have dried up. 

The result is that you cannot use it unless you dig up the maxscript exporter somewhere. But all in all it is a dead piece of software.

The good news is that 3dsmax is very similar to gmax. Since gmax is based on 3dsmax(from 2005). The whole modpanel gui is even looks the exact same in 3dsmax 2016(what i mainly use). And i emagine all the modeling tools you use are still in there after all this time (autodesk are notorious for keeping old code and features for backwards compatability and such). So you should be able to pick it up and start using it right away if you where so inclined to do so. 

Since you will be using it for noneprofit stuff you can grab an edu license from autodesk for free. 

Thats the first option. The second is to try something else. Blender has been suggested before and it is an excellent package and it is free. It is quite different than 3dsmax in its use tho. But actually some tools are a bit better. Its getting frequent updates and getting better all the time.

Another package that is rising in popularity is modo. A package i am currently implimenting in my own workflow. It is pretty different in use than most other packages but it does an excellent job for producing game assets. Its got a solid all-around toolset and the developers are improving it all the time. Its pricepoint is not bad eather at some 200 or so usd for the indie version

Edited January 25, 2016 by landeTLS

[Reason]

I have 3dsmax but given up on it because i needed a plug in the newer version don't support, All I need to know is attachment points used and modeling info for texturing I'm assuming KSP uses the power of 2 system I'm already accustom to and config editing as well trainz using silmer formatting in this regards.

 

Here a link to my site were you can find some of my models I did up for trainz.

http://novascotiatrainz.weebly.com/ksp.html

[landeTLS]

1 hour ago, Reason said:

I have 3dsmax but given up on it because i needed a plug in the newer version don't support, All I need to know is attachment points used and modeling info for texturing I'm assuming KSP uses the power of 2 system I'm already accustom to and config editing as well trainz using silmer formatting in this regards.

 

Here a link to my site were you can find some of my models I did up for trainz.

http://novascotiatrainz.weebly.com/ksp.html

Im curious as to what this plugin you are missing does? I cant think of anything script / pluginwise i cant find out there. In any case yes power of 2 textures are used. texture formats used and supported are generally .dds (reccomended), png, tga and perhaps a few more. Other than that you got an as-is result from your 3d model. But the unity step is required to setup the shaders and materials for unity and for colliders, as well as exporting the model as an .mu file (the model asset format used by ksp atm). All the attachement points are spesified in the part.cfg file (look in your ksp dir for examples or here on the forums for complete tutorials on the whole process) the coordinates use meters as scale but this is dependent on the scale set for the model on export(from 3d package) and on import (into unity) as well as your "rescale" multiplier inside the part.cfg file. Be aware however that if no rescale parameter is spesified it defaults to 1.25x the actual unity model scale. 

[InsaneDruid]

On a side node, I would highly recommend using the "new" node definitions with actual empties instead of fiddling with coordinates in a cfg. Just place an empty (in unity or you modelling software) where the node shall be, align its axis correctly (for blender it’s just the y-axis pointing in the direction a part should attach FROM, i.e. nodes on top of  a tank have their y-axis pointing DOWN and nodes at the bottom point UP, then export as fbx with applied transform and as “-z forward / y up”) In unity this will lead to the z-axis pointing in the direction TO the place where a part will attach, i.e. UP for top nodes and DOWN for bottom nodes)

and your cfg would be like:

NODE
{
    name = engine // any name, just for referencing
    transform = Stage2_NodeEngine // name of the empty
    size = 3 // size of the node
    method = FIXED_JOINT
}

this works beautifully and allows easy creation and alignment of nodes (especially nodes that aren’t aligned perfectly on a world axis, where coordinates get a pain to create) and the nodes scale automatically when rescaling the mesh. No more calculating coordinates by hand.

For parts that surface-attach (antennas) this might not work, but for those I usually place the node on the origin point of the mesh (or more: place the mesh around the origin so that origin and wanted attachment points are one point in space), eliminating any scaling needs too, as it will always be at 0,0,0.

With this method, you will be able to model in a 1:1 space, export to mu and scale the model ingame via just one simple cfg entry in the model-section:

MODEL
{
    model = HGA/Proton/parts/stage2
    scale = 0.60976,0.60976,0.60976   // 2500mm target size and 4100mm real size
}

 

 

[Mecripp]

5 hours ago, InsaneDruid said:

On a side node, I would highly recommend using the "new" node definitions with actual empties instead of fiddling with coordinates in a cfg. Just place an empty (in unity or you modelling software) where the node shall be, align its axis correctly (for blender it’s just the y-axis pointing in the direction a part should attach FROM, i.e. nodes on top of  a tank have their y-axis pointing DOWN and nodes at the bottom point UP, then export as fbx with applied transform and as “-z forward / y up”) In unity this will lead to the z-axis pointing in the direction TO the place where a part will attach, i.e. UP for top nodes and DOWN for bottom nodes)

 

and your cfg would be like:

 

NODE
{
    name = engine // any name, just for referencing
    transform = Stage2_NodeEngine // name of the empty
    size = 3 // size of the node
    method = FIXED_JOINT
}

 

this works beautifully and allows easy creation and alignment of nodes (especially nodes that aren’t aligned perfectly on a world axis, where coordinates get a pain to create) and the nodes scale automatically when rescaling the mesh. No more calculating coordinates by hand.

 

For parts that surface-attach (antennas) this might not work, but for those I usually place the node on the origin point of the mesh (or more: place the mesh around the origin so that origin and wanted attachment points are one point in space), eliminating any scaling needs too, as it will always be at 0,0,0.

 

With this method, you will be able to model in a 1:1 space, export to mu and scale the model ingame via just one simple cfg entry in the model-section:

 

MODEL
{
    model = HGA/Proton/parts/stage2
    scale = 0.60976,0.60976,0.60976   // 2500mm target size and 4100mm real size
}

 

 

 

 

 

model Node joints work for you in 1.0.5 ? with some of the mods that use them there broke in 1.0.5 ?

[InsaneDruid]

Yea, apart from surface attach nodes (never tried them) it works like a charm.

[landeTLS]

I can indeed confirm that NODE {} works pretty well. Now i havent completed a parts pack for ksp (lost my motivation to do so) so i dont havent faced all situations and issues that may accur. But in all the 10 or so cases where i set up the nodes in this way it worked exactly as expected in the game. This was in 0.23. I cant imagine things have gotten worse since then.

[Reason]

This is no boding well S3d max refuses to work and I don't know why, well this throw a wrench into my plans.

[Reason]

1 hour ago, Reason said:

This is no boding well S3d max refuses to work and I don't know why, well this throw a wrench into my plans.

disregard this last part I forgot to restart my PC was apart of installing it lol.

Now S3d Max is installed and running normely, you can get a gmax file into obj format there's a plugin for it. but that takes more work.

Here a screen of a model I made for trainz is it's unfinished this give you a idea of my skills. I'll be looking for the plugins for KSP and get the ball rolling ones i get use to s3dmax.

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Reason

[Mecripp]

9 hours ago, landeTLS said:

I can indeed confirm that NODE {} works pretty well. Now i havent completed a parts pack for ksp (lost my motivation to do so) so i dont havent faced all situations and issues that may accur. But in all the 10 or so cases where i set up the nodes in this way it worked exactly as expected in the game. This was in 0.23. I cant imagine things have gotten worse since then.

If you have time would you mind look at this mod and see why the top node is not attaching  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/97574-90-quiztech-v12/

Edited January 31, 2016 by Mecripp2

[InsaneDruid]

The empty is incorrectly aligned. The node thus wants the part that is going to attach to it positioned inside the engine (below the node itself) not above, like you intended.

The next screen shows it: on the left, my proton second stage, on the right, your engine, both after importing from .mu into blender. (Note, after importing back from mu the y-axis of a node, should point outwards in blender, where before exporting to fbx it has to point inwards)

Personally, I also would use a "proper" model definition:

 

MODEL
{
    model = QuizTech/Parts/Engine/QT-S25/QT_S25
        scale = 1.25,1.25,1.25
}
rescaleFactor = 1.0
scale = 1.0

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by InsaneDruid

[Mecripp]

3 hours ago, InsaneDruid said:

The empty is incorrectly aligned. The node thus wants the part that is going to attach to it positioned inside the engine (below the node itself) not above, like you intended.

The next screen shows it: on the left, my proton second stage, on the right, your engine, both after importing from .mu into blender. (Note, after importing back from mu the y-axis of a node, should point outwards in blender, where before exporting to fbx it has to point inwards)

Personally, I also would use a "proper" model definition:

 

MODEL
{
    model = QuizTech/Parts/Engine/QT-S25/QT_S25
        scale = 1.25,1.25,1.25
}
rescaleFactor = 1.0
scale = 1.0

 

 

 

Thanks for looking at it was hoping the modder would have updated be now and fix it has my problem, I'm running Linux and a beta unity and seeing where things are pointing well guess you can say it's broke but will have a look at it again and see if, I can get the right angle

[landeTLS]

6 hours ago, MeCripp said:

If you have time would you mind look at this mod and see why the top node is not attaching  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/97574-90-quiztech-v12/

This was explained well above. But if you want the TL;DR: The transform (named empty gameobject) is not rotated to face the correct direction.

Edited January 31, 2016 by landeTLS

[Mecripp]

8 minutes ago, landeTLS said:

This was explained well above. But if you want the TL;DR: The transform (named empty gameobject) is not rotated to face the correct direction.

As , I tried to say with a unity beta for linux Y is always facing up even if the part isn't, I have to look at the numbers

[landeTLS]

4 hours ago, MeCripp said:

As , I tried to say with a unity beta for linux Y is always facing up even if the part isn't, I have to look at the numbers

O i understand. You have to change the coordinate system to local. In unity this is called local/global gizmo display. This does not effect the result but it allows you to see in the editor the actual rotation of the transform.

http://docs.unity3d.com/410/Documentation/Manual/PositioningGameObjects.html

Edited February 1, 2016 by landeTLS

[Mecripp]

20 minutes ago, landeTLS said:

O i understand. You have to change the coordinate system to local. In unity this is called local/global gizmo display. This does not effect the result but it allows you to see in the editor the actual rotation of the transform.

http://docs.unity3d.com/410/Documentation/Manual/PositioningGameObjects.html

Thanks alot lol that does help

[Reason]

Set up looks fairly simple I was thinking there be more to it then that, Only problem is there no um exporter for s3dmax and i don't have time to lurem a new program. I looked om google found nothing helpful.

 

Here's a Test cone I started working on to get things started.

Haven't got it set on the y axes yet but I will later on ones i play around with it abit more.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Reason

[artwhaley]

A quick googling seems to indicate that you CAN export .fbx from the student version of 3dsmax... so you shouldn't have any problem getting it into Unity.  The Unity forums are probably the place to look for questions about that...

[Reason]

Ok got ya I was looking at the wrong thing lol by bad I'll take a look later on right not i'm trying to figer out how to apply textures to the model in s3dmax its set up abit differently then what I'm use to, making the model is easy texturing is harder.

We'll get this thing working going take some time.

[landeTLS]

10 hours ago, Reason said:

Ok got ya I was looking at the wrong thing lol by bad I'll take a look later on right not i'm trying to figer out how to apply textures to the model in s3dmax its set up abit differently then what I'm use to, making the model is easy texturing is harder.

We'll get this thing working going take some time.

Yea texture painting in 3dsmax is a chore( there is some minor functionality but its been abandoned long ago ). Use an external program like photoshop or gimp. To apply a texture is quite simple. you can make it as simple as just drag and dropping a png to the object. But the preferred method is using the material editor (M key. I like the compact mode instead of slate mode) to apply it in the diffuse slot of the material you want to use. Just make sure you have unwrapped your model (use one of the two uvw modifiers) or its probably gonna look like a mess.

But this is a very complex subject. So to get a better walkthrough id suggest you to look at some of arrimus3d's tutorials on youtube.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCSLLdTBwLMfTKWS56tOiQpw

He has some good ones on texturing as well as on modeling in general in 3dsmax.

Edited February 4, 2016 by landeTLS