Less friction on some surfaces

[Wjolcz]

I've been away from KSP for a few weeks (two to be exact) and was instead playing IL-2 1946. What I noticed is that belly landings there are way more forgiving than doing so in KSP. The plane slides on the grass if it doesn't have it's undercarriage out. And I know that you may say "Yeah, but landing a WW2 plane with plenty of lift (compared to some things built in KSP) is way easier."

Yeah, maybe... But soil with grass in it should be softer (and slidier?) than a concrete runway. At least it shouldn't pop into pieces like a chopped sausage when it hits a hill with a nose at 35m/s.

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by Veeltch

[moogoob]

Grass landings in il-2 are quite spectacular. I think the main reason is that the physics treats grass and soil as a soft rather than hard surface - halting vertical speed though kicking up a copious amount of dirt rather than bouncing the airplane.

Also, when I try it my wings tend to snap off - just like in KSP, but without the bouncing and tumbling.

[Pds314]

This is more to do with the way KSP implements damage. IRL, Tailstrikes upon takeoff almost never cause serious damage, and tailstrikes upon landing rarely do. Landing gear collapses cause some fireworks, but even at high speeds, they don't make the cockpit disappear. IRL, a plane that runs into a building at 20 m/s is probably going to kill passengers, and a plane that skids along a runway at 120 m/s will probably be fine if nothing catches fire.

Like, roughly speaking, everything IRL behaves like it has braked landing gears all over it.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Pds314

[Randox]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I would actually expect a plane to slide further on concrete than it would in a grassy field, assuming it was a belly landing. My reasoning is that grass grows in dirt, which is soft enough to become deformed even in a relatively controlled landing, and that will cause things like the nose and engines to dig in. At the very least, belly landing in a hard surface is probably a lot more survivable, because once the plane digs in, things normally go pear shaped. Basically, I would expect the deformation of surfaces like fields to provide more resistance than a hard surface like Concrete that withstand the impact without deforming.

The other thing is that, at least for a passenger plane, without the ground deforming, there is remarkably little of the plane actually touching the runway when the gear is up. Here's a video from 2011 of a 767 doing a gear up landing. Notice that the only points of contact are the engines and the rear fuselage.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Randox

[worir4]

@Randox

Doesn't the points of contact depend on the shape of the aircraft? For the 767 the bottom of the engines are lower than the fuselage. For other planes the entire belly might be in contact causing some crumpling and the aircraft breaking up. I think that landing in grass would be potentially more fatal than a hard runway as the imperfections in the ground would make the plane more likely to break up. 

I recommend this mod 

It will make the craft less likely to explode and give a more realistic effect of an aircraft landing without the wheels.

[Randox]

3 hours ago, worir4 said:

@Randox

Doesn't the points of contact depend on the shape of the aircraft? For the 767 the bottom of the engines are lower than the fuselage. For other planes the entire belly might be in contact causing some crumpling and the aircraft breaking up. I think that landing in grass would be potentially more fatal than a hard runway as the imperfections in the ground would make the plane more likely to break up. 

...

It will make the craft less likely to explode and give a more realistic effect of an aircraft landing without the wheels.

For sure, though at least as far as passenger jets go, I think low engines are the norm. Off the top of my head, I am not aware of any passenger plane that has successfully completed a belly landing on dirt (start to finish) without breaking up/injuring people, though I am by no means aware of every case that has happened.

Anywho, that's an interesting mod. I might check it out myself.

[fireblade274]

I would love to see terrain deformation upon impacts implemented into the game, such as what would happen if you fall short of the runway and did a belly landing or something, and i don't think its too far fetched. Personally, I would actually much rather see more graphical, informational and optimization updates to the game at this stage then any more new gameplay features, such as the relay system. Yes, relay system is cool, but I think the priority should be increasing the optimization of the game. With my OC i5 4690k at 4.25ghz, out of every game I have, this game gets me the lowest fps 100% of the time, usually 5 fps)