Helium hydride rocket?

[Angeltxilon]

Quote

The hydrohelium(1+) cation, HeH+, also known as the helium hydride ion or helium-hydride molecular ion, is a positively charged ion formed by the reaction of a proton with a helium atom in the gas phase, first produced in the laboratory in 1925. It is isoelectronic with molecular hydrogen.[2] It is the strongest known acid, with a proton affinity of 177.8 kJ/mol.[3] It has been suggested that HeH+ should occur naturally in the interstellar medium, but it has not yet been detected.[4] It is the simplest heteronuclear ion, and is comparable with the hydrogen molecular ion, H+
2. Unlike H+
2, however, it has a permanent dipole moment, which makes its spectroscopic characterization easier.

The helium hydride could be a extremely strong propellant (in the correct mix and chemical reaction), or a monopropellant, due to her acid and unstable nature.

However has several problems:

Quote

The helium hydride cation reacts with most substances. It has been shown to add a proton to O2, NH3, SO2, H2O, and CO2, giving O2H+, NH+
4, HSO+
2, H3O+, and HCO+
2.[11] Other molecules such as nitric oxide, nitrogen dioxide, nitrous oxide, hydrogen sulfide, methane, acetylene, ethylene, ethane, methanol and acetonitrile react but break up due to the large amount of energy produced.

So, it would react with any substance, even with others acids and superacids, this is an advantage in the propulsion, but a disadvantage in her containment.

Also any strong electric discharge could desionice this ion, and produce her discomposition (that is the basis of use it like monopropellant).

Quote

The helium hydride ion is formed during the decay of tritium in the molecule HT or tritium molecule T2. Although excited by the recoil from the beta decay the molecule remains bound together.[13]

Another problem is her obtainment, currently is very difficult obtain helium hydride and is expensive because needs tritium like basis.

 

It is viable like rocket fuel (at least in the tecnic/practic and not in the price)?

Think in it like a far future fuel, like antimatter and nuclear pulse rockets.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Angeltxilon

[sevenperforce]

No, can't make enough.

[YNM]

I don't think we want something like that. LH2 and LOX is hard enough (needs proper cyro at any time ; LOX can stay the way it is for a few minutes) and LH2 is very loose (totally not dense), why would you have something that's only slightly denser yet very, very hard to contain ?

Edited April 11, 2016 by YNM

[Nothalogh]

5 hours ago, YNM said:

why would you have something that's only slightly denser yet very, very hard to contain?

Because he likes to live dangerously 

[todofwar]

The phrase "strongest known acid" should tip you off that this is not the best thing to mess around with. Besides, you need a counterion, which will add weight, and I don't know what kind of counter ion you would want for something like that.

But if you (or anyone else) are interested in crazily energetic molecules I suggest you look up FOOF.

[YNM]

3 hours ago, Nothalogh said:

Because he likes to live dangerously 

Hmm... Wonder how a HeH+ spill news headline will be...

[shynung]

3 hours ago, todofwar said:

The phrase "strongest known acid" should tip you off that this is not the best thing to mess around with. Besides, you need a counterion, which will add weight, and I don't know what kind of counter ion you would want for something like that.

But if you (or anyone else) are interested in crazily energetic molecules I suggest you look up FOOF.

Also, Red Mercury.

[todofwar]

2 hours ago, shynung said:

Also, Red Mercury.

Great read. The thought of a FOOF/dimethyl mercury rocket is enough to give me nightmares, those two are top of the list of chemicals all chemists fear. 

[Jovus]

10 hours ago, todofwar said:

The phrase "strongest known acid" should tip you off that this is not the best thing to mess around with. Besides, you need a counterion, which will add weight, and I don't know what kind of counter ion you would want for something like that.

The counterion wouldn't exactly add weight. It'd be the Fe of the inside of the tank.

[p1t1o]

Sounds like it has all of the problems of antimatter, but with far less energy density. Honestly it seems like antimatter might be easier to come by too.

Funnily enough, you could store it using the same device we [currently] use for storing antimatter, a penning trap.

[todofwar]

2 hours ago, Jovus said:

The counterion wouldn't exactly add weight. It'd be the Fe of the inside of the tank.

Doesn't matter, you still need enough iron. Let's say you get stable iron 2-, which is as high as you can get, you still are left with the overall formula Fe(HeH)2, and iron is heavy so most of your weight will be the iron. 

[p1t1o]

2 hours ago, Jovus said:

The counterion wouldn't exactly add weight. It'd be the Fe of the inside of the tank.

 

10 minutes ago, todofwar said:

Doesn't matter, you still need enough iron. Let's say you get stable iron 2-, which is as high as you can get, you still are left with the overall formula Fe(HeH)2, and iron is heavy so most of your weight will be the iron. 

There are no extra electrons here, this is not electrically balanced. Reacting with iron, you'd get H2 gas, Fe2+ and He.

And you certainly could *not* have a tank filled only with positive species, this is just not possible. And if you had it in a tank with an anion species (like an Fe2- species), it would not be stable and would immediately react with that, releasing the energy there.

[todofwar]

4 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

 

There are no extra electrons here, this is not electrically balanced. Reacting with iron, you'd get H2 gas, Fe2+ and He.

Well yeah, that's starting from neutral iron (storing any acid in a metal tank is bad for this reason). I was saying even if you get the iron tank to distribute negative charge while still being solid somehow, you still have most of your mass as iron. 

[Jovus]

You seem to have missed the joke.

[p1t1o]

9 minutes ago, todofwar said:

Well yeah, that's starting from neutral iron (storing any acid in a metal tank is bad for this reason). I was saying even if you get the iron tank to distribute negative charge while still being solid somehow, you still have most of your mass as iron. 

It doesn't matter because you won't get Fe(HeH)2. Starting with a fictional source of free Fe2-, you'd get elemental iron, hydrogen gas and monoatomic helium. All probably *very* hot. And inside your spaceship.

[todofwar]

3 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

It doesn't matter because you won't get Fe(HeH)2. Starting with a fictional source of free Fe2-, you'd get elemental iron, hydrogen gas and monoatomic helium. All probably *very* hot. And inside your spaceship.

Not disagreeing at all. But I said they need a counterion which would add weight, they said the iron in the tank would take care of it, so I focused on the weight problems of that though yes the entire premise ignores basic chemistry. 

[p1t1o]

6 minutes ago, todofwar said:

Not disagreeing at all. But I said they need a counterion which would add weight, they said the iron in the tank would take care of it, so I focused on the weight problems of that though yes the entire premise ignores basic chemistry. 

Yes, the ratios are not favourable mass-wise, even if you had a tank made of carbon or something, that still more than triples the mass.

[Scotius]

12 hours ago, YNM said:

Hmm... Wonder how a HeH+ spill news headline will be...

"Run! Run for your lives!!!"

[p1t1o]

2 minutes ago, Scotius said:

"Run! Run for your lives!!!"

Yes, I'm told that positive ions can disrupt our natural balance. Fortunately negative ions reverse the damage caused and are generally abundant in nature.

http://www.noproblemionbalance.com/aboutpearlion.asp

()

[todofwar]

3 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Yes, I'm told that positive ions can disrupt our natural balance. Fortunately negative ions reverse the damage caused and are generally abundant in nature.

http://www.noproblemionbalance.com/aboutpearlion.asp

()

What did I just read? I'm just... so many things..... but ..... 

I honestly don't even know where to start with that one. Reminds me of someone complaining about how they dilute oxygen on planes with nitrogen, to save money. 

[Scotius]

"Noproblem...no money"

[p1t1o]

43 minutes ago, todofwar said:

Reminds me of someone complaining about how they dilute oxygen on planes with nitrogen, to save money. 

Thats just plain ignorant, they need the nitrogen for the chemtrails.