Tech Tree Tweak

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Hi Guys,

this time I want to suggest something about the unlock-order of the Techtree and foremost for these Parts:
First Section: 1.25m Bi-coupler, Tri-Coupler, Quad-Coupler

Spoiler

Second Section: Sepratron I, LV-1 "Ant", 48-7S "Spark", Oscar-B-Tank, 0,625-etc

Spoiler

Right now the Techtree looks like this (Blue vertical lines show you the Levels for the R&D Facility):
 

Spoiler

First Section
Situation:
As you can see, you 'll unlock the 1.25m Bi-Coupler right after you unlocked the first 2.5m tank, which means you would much likely build a 2,5m-Core instead going with 1,25m core at that point.
Also note, that you have to upgrade your R&D Facility before you get the Bi-Coupler.
Which renders the Bi-Coupler where it is right now pretty much useless as you can do the same thing with two downward facing Modular Girder Segments and attach the Engines on them as they are Crossfeeding Fuel.

Tweak:
My Idea would be to at least move the Bi-Coupler in the same Node like the biggest 1,25m tank FLT-400
This way you can build Rockets with a 1,25m Core, 2x LV-T45 and a couple of BACC-SRB's (in example) to give them enough dV to reach and land on Minmus and maybe the Mun.
There would also be an advantage of using the Bi-Coupler instead of Modular Girder Segments because you are only using one Part instead of two and the Part-Count is pretty critical Factor in the early Career.

Second Section
Situation:
Currently you will unlock the Ant-Engine and the 48-7S right after you get the bigger LV-909 which renders them almost obsolete. Even further down the Techtree is the Sepratron, the most interesting SRB in the game (In my opinion) as it costs pretty much nothing, and has a overwhelming TWR, perfect for Retro-Engines or to boost a Satelite into it's final orbit.

Tweak:
I would like to see the 0,625m Parts (including the Sepratron) being moved to an earlier Node in the Techtree so you could go a long way with a Command Pod, an Oscar-B-Tank and an 48-7S- or Ant-Engine for example.
If you would also go ahead and move the Command Seat to the same Level (not the same Node, just the Lvl) as the 0,625m Parts, you would be pretty much set to go interplanetary at this stage if you dare (because the Command Seat does not hold power, monopropellant or provide torge or heatshielding like a capsule).

TL/DR:
I am not quite sure where to place those parts/nodes exactly, I just wanted to point out a better place for them where they would get a greater use.

Feel free to discuss
 

Edited April 11, 2016 by MalfunctionM1Ke

[tater]

The tech tree as it is is completely absurd. It needed to be completely redone several versions ago.

[Alshain]

It was completely redone several versions ago, and they kind failed at it.  Either they didn't really put a lot of thought into it or they have some reasoning for the ridiculous locations of some of these parts.

[Violent Jeb]

I feel like more things in the tech tree need to be unlocked at a lower level. That said, even parts that are in different categories, often require parts from other nodes.

Radial decouplers without struts is rather pointless. Equally so for radial decouplers without fuel lines.

If i pay for radial decouplers, I should have access to the accessories for multi-staged/asparagus flight.

Same thing goes for Batteries & Solar panels. One or the other (don't care which) should be almost available from the start. Putting them that high up and in different nodes is a huge demand just for a simple rechargable vessel in space. It's like we're expected to bum around on kerbin for 3/4 of the tree.

While we're on power, the Radioactive Isotope Is equally sad. I believe it requires 300-500 research points, to provide its near negligible electricity. IIRC it's already balanced with the solar panel by the increased mass and reduced output, so having it at the far end of the tree just means i'll never use it in a typical career. Not until I start using MK3 parts is the radioisotope unlocked. Silly.

The only way to have a "fun" campaign, is to start with max funds (or tweak the decline penalty which for whatever reason affects the cost of buildings) so you don't have to choose between maneuver nodes or a ship with more than 30 parts. From there you add anywhere between 1000-3000 tech points depending on how much kerbin grinding you'd like.

 

Most career playthroughs I have to decide early on; do I want rovers, or planes, or spaceships. Why limit me so dramatically?
Good wheels require another 300 points. 
So it usually ends up spaceships, then rovers, and don't have points for planes until wayyy further in the campaign.

I often end up designing a craft minus 3 parts, then grind flights just to get enough science to unlock one part,
design craft again minus 2 parts, then grind flights just to get enough science to unlock one part, then
design craft again minus 1 part, then grind flights just to get enough science to unlock one part, then
design craft again, finally complete and ready for a practical mission of my choosing.

 

These are all problems which arise due to design problems within the tech tree or career mode itself..

Edited April 11, 2016 by Violent Jeb
Uncontrollable need to make things easy to read

[tater]

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

It was completely redone several versions ago, and they kind failed at it.  Either they didn't really put a lot of thought into it or they have some reasoning for the ridiculous locations of some of these parts.

Oh, yeah, it's still so awful, I forgot they claimed to have put a lot of testing into it with the Q/A people. Wow. Epic fail.

 

[Wjolcz]

I wouldn't mind if the tech tree was completely removed and instead we would have a system that would work more or less like this:

To unlock a part you need to perform a special set of experiments. For example: Use the rocket engine to go supersonic, measure the air density and temperature. Go back to base. Then wait for a few days and get a new shiny engine called "Whiplash" from your R&D. First you get a limited amount of them (they are produced 1 per week, or something), but after the R&D upgrade the production rate increases.

Some parts need the experiments, some parts would need a usage of a lower tier part of the same type (Tiny size -> Small size -> Medium size -> Large size, or short fuel tank -> medium tank -> long tank. Same with engines: Terrier -> Reliant -> Swivel).

I would prefer this instead of the science points tbh. IMO such system would actually force you to explore other planets (go to Duna to research a new engine that would suit it's atmosphere best) than just grind your way through the tree by biome hopping on the Mun.