[1.5.1] Cacteye Optics Community Takeover: Updated 10/22/2017

[icedown]

57 minutes ago, ThyRootBeer said:

Hi, 

 

i am new to the cacteye mod but found i have an issue whereby i launched the fungeye scope and right clicked to open the cover and then open the GUI but the GUI is empty, i cannot do anything with the scope, I'm running KSP 1.2.2 with the newest version of cacteye running the Galileo planet pack, basically i am running the same mods as Scott Manley in his latest videos and he too had the same issue whereby the GUI is black but the log shows no errors?

 

has anyone else experienced this?

You have to put a processor in the area behind the cover, either while in the VAB or by EVA using KIS.

[ThyRootBeer]

Hi Icedown, 

 

thanks, i thought it came with the processor but i guess it only comes with the processing mount, i should have read the description properly before placing it in a 1.6 million M orbit, i guess an EVA is in order

 

i shall re attempt this at home. thanks again for a quick reply.

Edited February 20, 2017 by ThyRootBeer

[Bornholio]

On 2/16/2017 at 1:47 PM, gerg1234 said:

How do I move the camera in small increments? I have my gyro sensitivity as low as it goes and my reaction wheels on the probe are off....at it still jumps all over the place.

Thanks!

Have all SAS and gyros except one turned off / disabled. Make sure RCS is off.   Set last gyro control authority lower as you increase magnification.   Lower Gyro Sensitivity as you increase mag also.

Above 3/4 of the slider in magnification make sure you have {CAPS LOCK} on to reduce input sensitivity.

Make sure you don't use target tracking in the higher magnification as its P.I.D. loop is sloppy. Target tracking does work fine at lower magnifications until you need to carefully fine tune the highest magnification.

At max a carefully planned tap or two is the most you can use or you shoot off alignment. At this point you should be set to 0%~1% Gyro Sensitivity and 1-3% Authority.

At this point you should be able to get anything except the smallest moons and the planet Pluto to focus with a Cacteye and level Wide Field Camera 2.

Advice for Asteroids is beyond me. /shrug  I only know that all I get is lag when I try.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by Bornholio
clarify

[icedown]

6 hours ago, Bornholio said:

Advice for Asteroids is beyond me. /shrug  I only know that all I get is lag when I try.

I'm working on a redesign of the system right now. The asteroid processor is going to be replaced.  

The zoom issues are also on the list.  I'm having to rethink the science progressions so it's going to be a pretty major update.

[icedown]

After working on some of the issues and thinking about the progression and usability of the scopes, here are the ideas that I have going forward.

FungEye will no longer be a smaller version of the CactEye for use in high Kerbin orbit.  It will become a visual probe camera.  It will take observations from high orbit around the target body. It will do this while using a new set of planetary observation processors.  

CactEye, given the large amount of science it is capable of, will have it's processors moved to more appropriate locations on the tech tree. Processor zoom is also being adjusted so that level 1 is not capable of smaller, distant planetary bodies such as moons, Dres, and Eeloo.   Also an overall reduction in science will be made.  

Science for each processor will not be cumulative with the science from prior processors as is the current setup.  Each will have its own unique experiment.  This will allow me to eliminate the adaptive cap system that is causing contract issues.  

Both CactEye and FungEye will be capable of dealing with asteroid observations using their native processors.  The current asteroid processors will be removed as will the asteroid spawning system.

Long term observations will be available to both types of scopes.  The time required for the observation with the CactEye will be based on size of planet and distance from the sun.  FungEye observation time will be based on the radius of the planet.  Electrical power will not be tracked but gyro decay will be. Should all gyros deteriorate and fail, the observation will halt until new ones are installed. It will deteriorate the gyros one at a time in tree order. This will serve to balance back the reduction of overall science by standard observations on the CactEye.  

Contracts will be adjusted to be available for each of the processor/scope combinations as well as one shot, long term contracts. 

I've thought about adding an infrared processor set for both scopes but I'm not sure how I can mimic that in the view.  

Thoughts on this new layout?   

[rasta013]

Sounds like you've got a great plan for going forward tbh...

Simplification of processes like the adaptive cap system will go a long ways towards fixing a number of the problems and getting this back to a frequently usable and less of a problem child.  The one and only thing I would change would be tracking electrical usage along with gyro decay.  Electrical usage, especially on high flying telescopes, needs to be something we have to deal with imho.  I'd be find without it though as it's really not that big of a deal...

[icedown]

4 hours ago, rasta013 said:

 The one and only thing I would change would be tracking electrical usage along with gyro decay.  Electrical usage, especially on high flying telescopes, needs to be something we have to deal with imho.  I'd be find without it though as it's really not that big of a deal...

Calculating electrical use on a ship that is not loaded is something I would l like to do but is not really possible.  Figuring up how much is used is easy, the problem comes with power generation.  There are quite a few mods that have rather extensive power generation systems, like Interstellar Extended, that would require a lot of specialized code.   I'm more likely to make wrong calculations and shutdown the scope when power generation may actually have been adequate.  

 

[rasta013]

I can fully appreciate that and like I said, not having it is no real big deal anyway and more about just adding that extra level of realism.  Looking forward to your overhaul!

[Bornholio]

Careful not to break saves with those changes

Wish List:  Fine Control input indicator. Smaller size Cacteye body (1.25 and 0.625) Lower max magnifications. Nicer Textures, Mount Point on top of Fungeye for nosecone/sunblocker. Max magnifications higher limit (RSS and other large scale mods need it for contracts on outer planets/moons) even if jumpiness is not solvable., RSS Compats!

My thought on why maybe some of us like this mod. Interaction. Unlike other science mods that are just another button mash for collect science in a biome this one requires setup, patience and work to get to the result.

if your change to Fungeye makes it just another "Optical telescope" like DMagic's or CA Probes Plus it looses its charm, If its adding the {Science experiment} [Log Visual observations] function and lowering the max magnification, tweak the science I'm all for it. 

The science from the results is way overpowered unless you are using an extended tech tree and even then the contracts take it over the top assuming they can be completed (ie pluto contracts).

One possible purpose for the Fungeye and another possible camera element is improved Kerbnet Access (See CA Probes Plus "Infra-Red Spectrometer" etc for a good example) or maybe SCANsat Integration

Even if the mod stays as is I'm really enjoying using it in my RSS career.

[icedown]

With the removal of the asteroid processors, breaking of saves may not be avoidable.  I'm going to take this chance however because of the broken nature of the processor.  Worst case scenario I see is having that a Cacteye/fungeye with the asteroid processor onboard will not be able to be loaded and new ones will have to be launched. 

Textures and models are outside of my abilities.  I can create a grey cube in blender but that's about it.  

I have already figured out the new magnification settings, the level 3 should be capable of Pluto.

The Fungeye will still be an interactive camera just like it is now.  The magnification will be modified and I may require stricter visual conditions.  One idea that I have been tossing around is that magnification not be able to be modified so that a specific altitude will be required to actually take the picture.  The altitude will not be given and would be a function of the size of the planet.  This mod was created with interaction as a requirement and I plan on keeping to that idea.

The adaptive cap I had on it to make the different levels of processors additive to the same science experiment forced the science pretty high to allow a decent amount of science from a level 1 Mun view.  That being said, science will probably remain pretty high for harder shots as it is based on the science multiplier of high orbit of the body being imaged.  I'm working on adapting the system to not require an individual science config for each planet which will allow this mod to work with any planetary configuration.  If you would like to see individualized science messages for planets not currently supported, you can submit a list of planets with their description you would like to see and I will incorporate them into the specific config files.  6 different descriptions will be available, level 1-3 for both cacteye and fungeye.  The science is also based on the idea that most people will be using a community tech tree.  I may consider a config setting lower science unless ctt is present but that will be at a later point.

Creating a complete visual scan using fungeye/scansat may be an option in the future, but I'm going to place that outside of the scope of this update.

 

 

[Zhetaan]

11 hours ago, icedown said:

The Fungeye will still be an interactive camera just like it is now.  The magnification will be modified and I may require stricter visual conditions.  One idea that I have been tossing around is that magnification not be able to be modified so that a specific altitude will be required to actually take the picture.  The altitude will not be given and would be a function of the size of the planet.  This mod was created with interaction as a requirement and I plan on keeping to that idea.

I like that idea.  I especially like the idea of not telling the altitude but rather leaving it up to the player to figure it out--maybe you can also rework it so that the contracts won't require a specific orbit, either, but rather require a sufficiently high orbit that can make the proper observations (and perhaps it ought to have an upper limit, as well--it hardly makes sense to get credit for visual observations when I launch something high enough to get a 'Pale Green Dot' picture).  In this case, are you considering including the field-of-view angle instead (for those of us who like to work the slide rules), or do you intend to leave that out?

[icedown]

The idea that I had was kind of basing it on is the probes we have sent out like Voyager, Cassini, and New Horizons. A fixed view angle camera would require images with the planet to take up a certain amount of the viewport.  Each of the three cameras would have a different angle and stricter requirements.  Lower orbits with closer tolerances for the higher tiered processor.  Missions will not even require an orbit.   This would mean that a properly placed flyby could get the science without having to pull out of the hyperbolic orbit.  This would also allow for Cassini type orbits to grab pictures of the moons.  Grand tour type contracts may be in order as well at a later point.  Another thing this would allow is the specification of a view that includes a specific place on a planet's surface, but that is not for this part of the update.  

 

Note: This update is going to take a while.  I have to remove one set of processors, add another set, rebuild all of the science definitions, then build the missions.  I will put up test builds as I progress along the major rewrite points to help squash bugs.

Edited February 23, 2017 by icedown

[icedown]

DO NOT USE THIS IN YOUR MAIN SAVE

You have been warned.

This is a testing version only, it is not to be used in any save that you might want to actually progress in or in a current save.

Please post any issues found on GitHub to allow for easier tracking.

https://github.com/icedown/CactEye-2/issues

Comments on changes are welcome.  There are still a lot of kinks to work out and stuff to build.

Current Changelog:

• Removed old asteroid processors
• Added new Planetary processors for use with the FungEye
• Wide Field processors will no longer work in the FungEye
• Rebuilt direction calculation systems
• All Wide Field Science will require the planet to take up at least 95% of the view
• Zoom has been rebuilt on all Wide Field Processors and now should be able to reach even Pluto by tier 3
• Science experiments have been rebuilt and nerfed slightly.
• Science should be able to be gathered from planets without a configuration file, eg RSS
• Fungeye is now a probe camera, it automatically targets the planet it is orbit over
• Processor Tier determines how close to the planet you have to be to get the science, higher tier, closer tolerances
• Fungeye is now a fixed viewing angle camera
• Fungeye has a one time lens cap at launch
• Transmission should use the fastest processor onboard now
• CactEye will not be capable of Asteroid observations in the near future, a new processor may be required
• FungEye will be adapted to close Asteroid operations but it is not implemented yet
• Missions have been removed pending completion of rewrite
• Moved processors into appropriate science categories
• Removed all depreciated DOE parts

 

Download at GitHub: https://github.com/icedown/CactEye-2/releases/tag/1.2.2.12p

[Bornholio]

1 hour ago, icedown said:

Comments on changes are welcome.  There are still a lot of kinks to work out and stuff to build.

• Missions have been removed pending completion of rewrite

I think It would be best to eliminate time limits on the missions, doesn't seem like they add anything except grief if you can't get a telescope into position in time to complete them.

Is this release test-able with RSS and other mods, or should I make a fresh install to test it?

[icedown]

1 hour ago, Bornholio said:

I think It would be best to eliminate time limits on the missions, doesn't seem like they add anything except grief if you can't get a telescope into position in time to complete them.

Is this release test-able with RSS and other mods, or should I make a fresh install to test it?

That's kinda the point of time limits on missions to start out with.  You have to know what you can and can't do.  I will look at them though when I rebuild them to make sure they are reasonable.  

As far as testing, I would not do it in your main install, though I would like to see it tested with mods and make sure it plays with mods like RSS well.  There have been a lot of changes in the zoom as it relates to targets for science.  I'm not sure how long range planets like in RSS are going to do.  It looks like it will work by my calculations but things may be off.  I'm only testing in a default kerbal system right now with almost no mods so I can be sure the base system works as I move forward.  I'm not sure if the FungEye will work well with small planets yet either.

[rasta013]

For my 2 cents I love the idea of time limits on missions - make 'em hard!  One of my biggest issues with the current mission system is the time length given to complete these things.  I find it funny that I can take a contract to launch someone's satellite (supposedly it would be their's and built) but yet I can wait 2, 3 maybe even 4 or 5 years before I complete it.  Nah, keep the time limits and make the mission make sense as to why it needs to be done in the shortened time frame - makes that contract much more interesting to pull off.  Furthermore, if you can't complete it in the time allotted why accept the contract in the first place?

[Bornholio]

12 minutes ago, rasta013 said:

For my 2 cents I love the idea of time limits on missions - make 'em hard!  One of my biggest issues with the current mission system is the time length given to complete these things.  I find it funny that I can take a contract to launch someone's satellite (supposedly it would be their's and built) but yet I can wait 2, 3 maybe even 4 or 5 years before I complete it.  Nah, keep the time limits and make the mission make sense as to why it needs to be done in the shortened time frame - makes that contract much more interesting to pull off.  Furthermore, if you can't complete it in the time allotted why accept the contract in the first place?

You will never complete Imaging Pluto/Charon and many other moons in RSS unless you magically teleport out the telescope of for some reason have pre-placed the scopes.  New horizons had a small window to happen and almost didn't.

Sure if poor long suffering Icedown wants to fine tune the contract system for RSS and outer planet mod packs it can work. I think is a waste of effort not "More Hard", more hard is actually running the mission itself.  mission timers for these missions would need to be decades in some cases. As it is right now, any mission (RSS) I have not already done ( all major planets) is impossible to complete unless i cheat.  And the consequence for failure is - big reputation (Basically reset to near 0) my reputation and a couple hundred k funds. Time allowed for the mission 2.5 years.  Maybe Mars (Deimos/Phobos) if the window is close but no Outer Planet Mission is going to hit that even with a good window.

Alternatively he can make long deadlines. The gather science from X space/surface are anywhere fro 5-50 years.  but at what point is the deadline meaningless and just one more chore for both modder and player. 

If the Fungeye are to become local system imaging then they also will need decade long timers in certain cases.  And its not "oh your to dumb, and picked an impossible one", its relegating the couple of active Telescope missions to the scrap heap for how ever long the acceptance timers are over and over.  i have Image Pluto and Image Mimas (moon of Saturn) idling in my mission box, both impossible to finish.

Gimme my 295 rep back for missing phobos! stinking 800k worth of cacteye hurled at friggin flyby velocity couldn't make it in time with a decent window.

Apologize for the tirade but its stone walled my enjoyment in my current game.  I heartily await the update though.  This and SCANsat really add an interesting level to the game.

[icedown]

2 minutes ago, Bornholio said:

Gimme my 295 rep back for missing phobos! stinking 800k worth of cacteye hurled

No Cacteye contract prior to the release of what I'm working on now should be one that causes you to send out a CactEye Scope anywhere.  They are designed to be used in high orbit of the homeword, eg kerbin for stock/oss systems.  Contracts to put up cacteye scopes only affect these worlds.  Any contract to put something Cacteye in orbit of another planet that is a part of this mod would be a "Test part" contract generated by the stock contract system.  Besides putting up a scope around the homeworld, the only other contract is to do planetary observations using said scope.   I have no idea what kind of contract you are mentioning here unless it is a test the part contract.  The scopes shouldn't even work outside of the homeworld.

That being said, the new FungEye will be a probe telescope but I am only designing contracts for the stock/oss type of systems.  The FungEye may be useless on outer planets in RSS due to time, but the CactEye should be usable for Pluto and the moons of gas giants from earth.

[Bornholio]

In RSS if you get any planetary moon or Pluto contract it can't be done from earth orbit as is.  Max magnification gets zip science on them and so the only way to complete them is send a telescope out farther. 

I'd assume the same for any scale up and outer planet mods.

Obviously whatever gets changed is relevant, not the old system.

As a comparison to real life Nasa received the "Make Wide Field Observations of Pluto" mission and used Hubbleye to get these fuzzy images, Cacteye gets about the same quality   Then more fuzzy blobs, err  moons in 2012!

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/science/pluto-20100204.html  Whats important was the early discovery of the other moons so new horizon could be directed to get other images that would not have even tried to get. and with the time delay we could not have reacted to soon enough to get the craft pointed correctly. 

Humanity was blessed that New Horizons made it in one piece on no backup comps, low grade hand me down RTG's and 40 AU of signal degradation. Nine years of agonizing wait and one hell of an oh crap night the morning before arrival.

Can't wait for the James Webb to get up, no wait to long, no budget to strong...but damn that thing is pretty.

[icedown]

36 minutes ago, Bornholio said:

In RSS if you get any planetary moon or Pluto contract it can't be done from earth orbit as is.  Max magnification gets zip science on them and so the only way to complete them is send a telescope out farther. 

 

On 2/26/2017 at 8:07 PM, icedown said:

 

• Zoom has been rebuilt on all Wide Field Processors and now should be able to reach even Pluto by tier 3

 

Quote

Humanity was blessed that New Horizons made it in one piece on no backup comps, low grade hand me down RTG's and 40 AU of signal degradation. Nine years of agonizing wait and one hell of an oh crap night the morning before arrival.

That sentence sounds like it could have come from your average KSP mission as much as from NASA.  And with the new FungEye rewrite, a very possible mission summary in KSP.  (Just saying it wasn't available before with only CactEye).

Edited February 28, 2017 by icedown

[BioRoots]

Do i need KIS to change the gyroscope since it has a lifespan  ?

 

 

[icedown]

5 minutes ago, BioRoots said:

Do i need KIS to change the gyroscope since it has a lifespan  ?

As of right now yes, they do generally have a long enough life to get almost all of the science though.  I have never actually had to replace one.  The only issue I've ever used KIS for is upgrades and exploding scopes.

That though will change in the next update.  I'm working on the long term portion right now and adjusting how gyro's decay.  They will no longer have a set time limit but will have a larger chance to fail as time goes.  Each gyro will be tracked independently and like the real HST, will require a certain number of operational ones on board to function.  I am going to implement a system system where you can set them as backups and they won't switch on until needed.  They will still decay, just not at the same rate as the operating gyros.  A gyro will only fail if it is operational and there will be levels of failure.  Some will just require switching to the telescope and restarting the gyro, others will require a spacewalk and repair but no parts, the worst will require replacement.

[drZuko]

Thank you for continuing the development of this mod. As an astronomy student, this mod is a must have 

As I understand it, the functionality of these telescopes is restricted to the [HKO] vicinity of Kerbin. Out of curiosity, is it possible make these telescopes function on Kerbin or is it practically impossible? I've already built a replica LBT, housing two FungEye telescopes; but, due to the high-orbit requirement for functionality, sadly, all it can serve as is a nice aesthetic prop for now 

[icedown]

While it would not be a hard to change, that really is not the purpose of these telescopes.  In the update I'm working on now, the purpose of the fungeye is changing completely and will become a probe telescope for taking images of planets from within their SOI.

[includao]

One of my favorite mods ever. Looking forward to see the new layout, with FungEye becoming a probe. The asteroid processor is really laggy in the release build, almost impossible to play. I hope it returns.