What joystick should I buy?

[pTrevTrevs]

I've been wanting to get IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946 for a while now, but after taking a closer look it appears that to really enjoy the game I need to fly with a joystick. I used to have a joystick, but it was built for 1990s era computers and thus will not fit into the USB port on my laptop (actually, when I tried to insert the plug I found out that it was actually taller than my laptop). I don't usually ask for advice here, but since a lot of KSP fans are also fans of flight simulators I decided it would be appropriate this time. So, what joystick should I buy?

 

Ideal Requirements

• Under $60 if possible
• Works well for various flight sims (I also want to be able to play Rise of Flight and Microsoft Flight Simulator, and using a joystick in KSP itself would be good too)
• Easy to learn
• Reliable
• Has enough buttons to map to different controls
• Rudder pedals? (or something equivalent to them)
• Smooth enough to allow precise maneuvering (I know absolutely nothing about joysticks, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were all like this)

Recommendations I've already recieved

• Logitech Extreme 3D Pro
• CH Products Flightstick Pro

And I have one more small question; What other equipment (if any) do I need to really enjoy flight sims like IL-2 and Rise of Flight? I've heard that TrackIR or some sort of virtual reality gear recommended before, but I don't want to spend $200 to play a $10 game if I can help it.

[pincushionman]

Look for "Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS." It's gonna be in the $50-$70 range, but it had a HOTAS-style throttle. The "X" is the older version and could save you $10-$20 if you can get it; not sure what's changed in the newer "4" version.

It's by far the least expensive HOTAS-style setup you can get.

[pTrevTrevs]

3 hours ago, pincushionman said:

Look for "Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS." It's gonna be in the $50-$70 range, but it had a HOTAS-style throttle. The "X" is the older version and could save you $10-$20 if you can get it; not sure what's changed in the newer "4" version.

It's by far the least expensive HOTAS-style setup you can get.

Alright, but does it do anything better than the Logitech or CH joysticks I've already seen? because it appears that the Logitech one (which is the one I'm leaning towards right now) seems to be cheaper and also looks like it has a HOTAS style setup or something similar to it.

[p1t1o]

11 hours ago, pTrevTrevs said:

Recommendations I've already recieved

• Logitech Extreme 3D Pro
• CH Products Flightstick Pro

I cannot recommend the logitech stick, purely because the name is just too ridiculous. I'd have loved to be in that marketing meeting...

But in all seriousness, CH products are fairly well-respected in the hardcore simulator world, the flightstick pro has been a consistent recommendation for decades.

You won't go too far wrong with thrustmaster either.

[T-Bouw]

In the past I've had a lot of Logitech joysticks. From simple ones to an expensive force feedback model.
But they all died on me at some point. In most there're no metal parts to speak of, so slop develops very fast.
Their service was good though, but it's still a hassle to get your product fixed/replaced. I cannot recommend Logitech joysticks.

I second Trustmaster & CH products though. I've heard lots of good things from them.

[evileye.x]

13 hours ago, pTrevTrevs said:

I've heard that TrackIR or some sort of virtual reality gear recommended before, but I don't want to spend $200 to play a $10 game if I can help it.

You can make DIY headtracker for less than 10$ (Freetrack / Opentrack) . And yes, head tracking is a must for flight / space sims.

I don't use it for KSP (may be I should try?.. ) but for Elite Dangerous and Freespace - OMG the difference in enjoyment is so huge. Go for it.

As for joysticks, I have CH Throttle and Pedal - very good gear. Pots and pretty old school electronics, but very nice scripting software.

Don't take Logitech Extreme 3d - noisy pots as sensors, very stiff central spring. Means no precise contol I have one, but after 

Spoiler

(magnetic sensors, two springs X,Y load) you cannot go back to logitech. I even removed springs and replaced it with rubber bands. I doubt you can find something like that, I would recommend Trustmaster T16000 (hall sensors).

Also, don't buy CH Flightstick, if you want to chose CH, go for CH Fighterstick - but remember there's no twist, so you'll need pedals. Pedals is another level of controlling your Yaw, must have for sims.

Though for KSP I use only stick with twist and ministick on throttle for RCS controls. 

Hope it will help...

 

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by evileye.x

[Columbia]

In my experience the yoke-type joysticks are a PITA to use when dogfighting (I'm looing at you, Saitek).

I would really recommend the Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro, I've had mine since 2008.

And for other tools, there's not much I can recommend but in IL-2 1946 there are a lot of keybindings, so it's also best you stick to a joystick with a lot of buttons too.

[Ten Key]

I have a CH Fighterstick, throttle and rudder pedals. They are not cheap, but in my opinion they are worth the money.

I particularly like the gimbal mount on the joystick. Each axis is independent, and the resistance to motion is very uniform, from the centered position all the way to full deflection. Consequently, the "throw" on the stick is precise and smooth, something you won't get with a cheaper joystick that uses springs. There's the trigger, a "reach up" button for the index finger, a "reach down" button on the front of the stick for the little finger, a thumb button, and four thumb hats that each have six or so bindable directions. As previously mentioned, there is no "twist" for the yaw axis. I consider that to be a feature-- it's too easy to get accidental yaw input and it messes with my aim. There is a dial for throttle control if you need it.  

The throttle moves back and forth in a straight line, as opposed to swinging through an arc, and some people don't like that. It has three finger buttons, three thumb hats and an index finger hat, each with six-ish bindable directions. It also has a fully analog thumb stick that doubles as a second joystick. I usually bind the camera to this stick, and it is fantastic, though TrackIR or something similar would make that unnecessary.  

I will be honest-- I am not a fan of the rudder pedals. In addition to the standard yaw motion (right foot forward, left backwards and vice versa) each pedal also has an independent "toe brake" that can be bound to its own axis. There are few games that need this though. . .I've tried binding this function to an "on/off" command (for example, lower gear or cut throttle in KSP) but I find it doesn't work very well. The pedals can be locked in place so that only the toe brakes function, so you can use them for racing games. My issue with the pedals is that they have a "hard stop" in the centered position-- they resist a sudden shift from right to left yaw. I've been told that many aircraft are like this in real life, to help damp out unintended oscillations, but I find it annoying. On the plus side, it is very easy and natural to center the rudder. On the down side, the pedals will fight you a little bit if you want to rapidly reverse your yaw input.

These things are tough. I had an old CH joystick that lasted from middle school, through high school and then all the way through college. It survived several none-too-gentle moves, and once had the misfortune of being thrown across a room with no ill effects. I finally had to get rid of it when computers stopped supporting game port connections. They cost a good deal of money, but they will last a long time. 

The software that comes with them is very powerful, but it is also not very user friendly. It will "merge" all three devices into a single virtual device, so you can use them with games that only support one analog input. I haven't had to dither with the software myself. . .the default settings work pretty well.

One draw back is that these things are pretty big. They are great if you have giant hands, but I struggle to reach some of the keys. The throttle is almost twice as wide as my hand if I don't splay out my fingers. But the extra size means the bases are pretty stable. They aren't likely to slide around on you in the middle of a dogfight. 

Edited June 17, 2016 by Ten Key

[pxi]

I'd second the recommendation for the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X.  Bought mine about a year ago for Elite:Dangerous, it's served me very well.  There are better offerings if you're willing to pay of course, but price-wise it's a winner for me.

[pTrevTrevs]

On 6/17/2016 at 3:35 PM, Ten Key said:

I have a CH Fighterstick, throttle and rudder pedals. They are not cheap, but in my opinion they are worth the money.

I particularly like the gimbal mount on the joystick. Each axis is independent, and the resistance to motion is very uniform, from the centered position all the way to full deflection. Consequently, the "throw" on the stick is precise and smooth, something you won't get with a cheaper joystick that uses springs. There's the trigger, a "reach up" button for the index finger, a "reach down" button on the front of the stick for the little finger, a thumb button, and four thumb hats that each have six or so bindable directions. As previously mentioned, there is no "twist" for the yaw axis. I consider that to be a feature-- it's too easy to get accidental yaw input and it messes with my aim. There is a dial for throttle control if you need it.  

The throttle moves back and forth in a straight line, as opposed to swinging through an arc, and some people don't like that. It has three finger buttons, three thumb hats and an index finger hat, each with six-ish bindable directions. It also has a fully analog thumb stick that doubles as a second joystick. I usually bind the camera to this stick, and it is fantastic, though TrackIR or something similar would make that unnecessary.  

I will be honest-- I am not a fan of the rudder pedals. In addition to the standard yaw motion (right foot forward, left backwards and vice versa) each pedal also has an independent "toe brake" that can be bound to its own axis. There are few games that need this though. . .I've tried binding this function to an "on/off" command (for example, lower gear or cut throttle in KSP) but I find it doesn't work very well. The pedals can be locked in place so that only the toe brakes function, so you can use them for racing games. My issue with the pedals is that they have a "hard stop" in the centered position-- they resist a sudden shift from right to left yaw. I've been told that many aircraft are like this in real life, to help damp out unintended oscillations, but I find it annoying. On the plus side, it is very easy and natural to center the rudder. On the down side, the pedals will fight you a little bit if you want to rapidly reverse your yaw input.

These things are tough. I had an old CH joystick that lasted from middle school, through high school and then all the way through college. It survived several none-too-gentle moves, and once had the misfortune of being thrown across a room with no ill effects. I finally had to get rid of it when computers stopped supporting game port connections. They cost a good deal of money, but they will last a long time. 

The software that comes with them is very powerful, but it is also not very user friendly. It will "merge" all three devices into a single virtual device, so you can use them with games that only support one analog input. I haven't had to dither with the software myself. . .the default settings work pretty well.

One draw back is that these things are pretty big. They are great if you have giant hands, but I struggle to reach some of the keys. The throttle is almost twice as wide as my hand if I don't splay out my fingers. But the extra size means the bases are pretty stable. They aren't likely to slide around on you in the middle of a dogfight. 

It does look like a good stick, unfortunately there is no way I can afford that, plus a throttle and rudder pedals right now

On 6/17/2016 at 7:34 PM, pxi said:

I'd second the recommendation for the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X.  Bought mine about a year ago for Elite:Dangerous, it's served me very well.  There are better offerings if you're willing to pay of course, but price-wise it's a winner for me.

Yeah, this looks like a great choice for the price. It's definitely going on my final selection list. I haven't decided against the Logitech extreme stick yet, but I have heard conflicting reviews about it. Some people (both ones I know and people on the internet) say it's great, others say it's a worthless piece of trash, so I'm not sure about it yet.