Keeping Steam "Previous version" updated

[KerbaDex]

Hi all, 

 Would it be possible to keep the "Previous stable version" updated to the well... Previous stable version. 

It would let most modded games continue while all the mods catch up, and also let players compare the updated feature vs. old feature.

at the moment that option bring back a 1.0.5 version of KSP.

 

[DoctorDavinci]

31 minutes ago, KerbaDex said:

Hi all, 

 Would it be possible to keep the "Previous stable version" updated to the well... Previous stable version. 

It would let most modded games continue while all the mods catch up, and also let players compare the updated feature vs. old feature.

at the moment that option bring back a 1.0.5 version of KSP.

 

That is an issue with Steam and has nothing to do with Squad

[KerbaDex]

7 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

That is an issue with Steam and has nothing to do with Squad

I just don't see how this is a steam issue? I'm curious as to why that would be for KSP/Squad specificaly

I have other games on Steam that seem to handle the beta branches contents themselves.

Other example of software using beta branches to hold the two latest versions up for the users.

Devs seem able to set branches with or without passwords, etc. 

What am I missing that would prevent this?

 

 

 

[PT]

KSP is DRM-free, that means you can create "branches" manually.

1. Opt-in for previous version.

2. Steam downloads KSP 1.0.5

3. Rename KSP directory to "KSP 1.0.5"

4. Switch to current version

5. Steam downloads KSP 1.1.x

6. Launch KSP by .exe, not Steam.

Done. Now you have both old and current KSP version to play with.

 

You can also do it preemptively:

1. Download KSP with Steam.

2. Rename KSP to "KSP [version]"

3. Make shortcut do desktop with version in name

4. Enjoy Steam not breaking your modded game with updates.

Repeat when updates happen.

 

Of course there is "problem" of Steam no longer counting your playtime. So sad.

Note: you can also make separate copies for modded and stock game.

[KerbaDex]

I agree there is a manual way to get 1.0.5.

I agree that there is a manual way to keep all versions on my side (copy the game folder)

But my question/suggestion is that the features available in steam can already manage that for the whole player base.

It seems possible and doable (other software does it on steam)

 

 

 

 

 

 

And most of all, I forgot to backup my 1.1.2 version and am heading into a long weekend where I planned to finish up my Duna Space Station

Any idea how I could get my hands on 1.1.2?

 

[PT]

1 hour ago, KerbaDex said:

And most of all, I forgot to backup my 1.1.2 version and am heading into a long weekend where I planned to finish up my Duna Space Station

Any idea how I could get my hands on 1.1.2?

 

And that's why I have disabled steam auto-run/auto-update and do preemptive backups ;p

I do not think there is legitimate way to obtain 1.1.2 after you updated to 1.1.3. You can try "previous version of file" function of Windows or other form of wayback machine, if you have any, but I doubt it will do its job. 

[Alshain]

18 hours ago, KerbaDex said:

Hi all, 

 Would it be possible to keep the "Previous stable version" updated to the well... Previous stable version. 

It would let most modded games continue while all the mods catch up, and also let players compare the updated feature vs. old feature.

at the moment that option bring back a 1.0.5 version of KSP.

 

1.0.5 is the previous stable version. First 1.1.2 wasn't stable (not that 1.1.3 is). However, it was also a patch release, where 1.0.5 was a major feature release.  The previous stable version doesn't count minor patches to the current version (because those patches are intended to stabilize the current version).  So, 1.1.2 doesn't count for that reason either, nor does 1.1, or 1.1.1, making 1.0.5 the previous stable release.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Alshain

[Vaporized Steel]

The crude way of putting this is in some way my gut feeling rather then fact since I can't look behind the steam curtains so to say.

Steam is a profit organisation profiting on sales and contracts with suppliers of which one is Squads KSP.

They do what they commercialize to do. Which is, selling a very wide collection of games through a application which is only there to commercialize, bond and unify a gaming community, and work as a platform for lot's of people using it. Which is probably the only reason why Steam ever became great. Due to these reasons Steam became a trend in the PC gaming community, and it's power grew.
It seems to me from a "gut feeling standpoint" (only saying because we lack facts, and you have to theorize to find them, meaning it's my opinion)
That Steam is a bit of a spoiled throne sitter, shuffling around games now and then for profit and unattending their services in many areas. If they did put attention to their services they would have aproached Squad, because I'm sure the same steam users do not only go to forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com to share their complaints.
In fact, when I google KSP related content I often get directed to the steam community. So what is being reported here, is being reported there.

While it is no suggestion of mine but just a push in Squads direction of considering to aproach Steam themselves about this problem if they haven't already. I used Steam years ago when I was a active gamer, and back then I suffered from other game related issues (non KSP related)
How Steam ever got to this position considering their very good service to it's customers (ultimate sarcasm) is beyond me.
If this is not the problem between the Squad and Steam relationship but just a flawed theory, let Squad be so free to elaborate on the subject if they're willing to. And explain to me why these issues aren't resolved.
It's both profit for Squad and Steam to have satisfied customers, so I think this move will be in order one day eventually or let it boil down to it. We'll see. If it's not profit on Steams side, then they have a to big to fail and KSP is unimportant mentality. It would be sad if it's the latter.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Vaporized Steel

[Alshain]

@Vaporized Steel

I'm not sure what this conversation has to do with Steam, the previous stable version is controlled by Squad, not Valve.  They control the branches directly, so Valve has nothing to do with it.

However, in response to your comments, I was actually alive and gaming at the time Steam rose to power and quite frankly, we likely wouldn't be here discussing this if it hadn't.  PC gaming was on the verge of collapse (not totally gone mind you), major companies were fleeing the platform, largely due to rampant piracy and poor sales.  When Steam came along the market was ripe for the taking, I won't say it was single handed, but Steam played a very very large factor in the restoration of PC gaming.   Steam offered a way to protect the concerns of the game developers without completely irritating the user with hidden, secretive DRM.  This came at a time when some DRM (*cough* StarForce) was actually introducing bugs that physically damaged CD-ROM hardware, permanently.  On top of that, the Steam platform allowed for digital distribution which set the tone for everything we know today.  Again, not single handedly, but a major player none the less.  Finally, Valve itself remains to this day a privatized company.  They aren't a big corporation, they aren't publicly traded, which players viewed as more down to earth, even when competitors like Microsoft and EA tried to edge their way into the market.

Why it is that you hate Valve so much is the only thing to question?  It's most likely you associate things you dislike from the developers, Squad or otherwise, and assume they are the actions of Valve.  As you see with this one, that is not the case.  Steam isn't perfect by any means, but I have a feeling Steam is just a "whipping boy" for the things you really do not like that aren't even under their control.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Alshain

[Vaporized Steel]

 

@Alshain

Well, I happen to agree with you TBH. In terms of there victory over piracy and Squad being owners of KSP.

That is indeed something positive to say about Steam. As for what my comment has to do with steam, hmm, the topic title hints me that a Steam user wants a old pre v 1.1.3 version of KSP available which Steam doesn't offer. Which is why I invited myself to complain about them. But yes, KSP is owned by Squad to take initiative to improve things for their own game with their partners. Which is why I suggested for Squad to aproach Steam.

What I tried getting at in terms of my Steam critique (apart from their victories over piracy) they seem to lack support for the games they offer. Not just KSP, I had issues with L4D2 for instance among actual support on the forums. More questions are being asked then answers leading to solved issues with steam support directly or on their forums (personal experiences here). And the questions that are answered are usually into the box straightforward answers leading to no solutions because more games other then KSP are suffering of support from steams side. Steam basically distributes games made by developers of other gaming companies and then shuffled under their supervision. Probably to stop piracy. All very good, but still no reason to leave the actual paying customer with bad support or no support at all.

Only the game authors (Squad for our KSP) that Steam distributes has the ability to give accurate support. So Steam support for any game is lacking by default. Steam support is support for their part which is the Steam application. If a game suffers technically like KSP does since Steam doesn't distribute multiple version then it's just pity poor you. The worst part is that you as a customer paid for it while you could buy it closer to the source it originates from, but the customer didn't because Steam has a market monopoly and gets faster and closer to naive customers then the official KSP website or gog.com.
And remember, I'm not standing up for myself since I don't use KSP on steam, but it does remind me from my own past relationships with Steam support, and naming their victories (victory over piracy) is to me no reason not to discuss their shortcomings.

Steams supervision is supposed to keep track of all the user related issues either with the games they distribute or the steam application itself, or the relation between Steam and the game in question. All I want Squad to do, if they're willing to is present their wishes in terms of support and availability of older versions which should be accesible for whomever needs it. If Squad is the one to take that initiative because they are owners of KSP then so be it. But my complaints are to Steam!

Edited June 22, 2016 by Vaporized Steel

[Alshain]

11 minutes ago, Vaporized Steel said:

 

@Alshain

Well, I happen to agree with you TBH. In terms of there victory over piracy and Squad being owners of KSP.

That is indeed something positive to say about Steam. As for what my comment has to do with steam, hmm, the topic title hints me that a Steam user wants a old pre v 1.1.3 version of KSP available which Steam doesn't offer. Which is why I invited myself to complain about them. But yes, KSP is owned by Squad to take initiative to improve things for their own game with their partners. Which is why I suggested for Squad to aproach Steam.

What I tried getting at in terms of my Steam critique (apart from their victories over piracy) they seem to lack support for the games they offer. Not just KSP, I had issues with L4D2 for instance among actual support on the forums. More questions are being asked then answers leading to solved issues. And the questions that are answered are usually into the box straightforward answers leading to no solutions because more games other then KSP are suffering of support from steams side. Steam basically distributes games made by developers of other gaming companies and then shuffled under their supervision. Probably to stop piracy. All very good, but still no reason to leave the actual paying customer with bad support or no support at all.

Only the game authors (Squad for our KSP) that Steam distributes has the ability to give accurate support. So Steam support for any game is lacking by default. Steam support is support for their part which is the Steam application. If a game suffers technically like KSP does since Steam doesn't distribute multiple version then it's just pity poor you. The worst part is that you as a customer paid for it while you could buy it closer to the source it originates from, but the customer didn't because Steam has a market monopoly and gets faster and closer to naive customers then the official KSP website or gog.com.
And remember, I'm not standing up for myself since I don't use KSP on steam, but it does remind me from my own past relationships with Steam support, and naming their victories (victory over piracy) is to me no reason not to discuss their shortcomings.

Steams supervision is supposed to keep track of all the user related issues either with the games they distribute or the steam application itself, or the relation between Steam and the game in question. All I want Squad to do, if they're willing to is present their wishes in terms of support and availability of older versions which should be accesible for whomever needs it. If Squad is the one to take that initiative because they are owners of KSP then so be it. But my complaints are to Steam!

What support are you expecting from Steam?  They don't make the game, they just distribute it.  If you bought a Samsung TV from Walmart would you expect Walmart to support that TV?  If Samsung discontinued that TV version would you expect Walmart to keep selling it? All they could do is exchange it, they can't do much else. 

It did take a while (too long, again Steam isn't perfect) but Steam now has a return policy.  That is all they can do.  Steam distributes what Squad tells them to, nothing more, nothing less.  Again, you attributing faults that belong with Squad to Steam.  Squad chooses not to distribute multiple versions, they don't do that on the KSP website either.  Your blame is misplaced.  Your complaint is about Squad, not Steam.  Steam has no choice in the matter.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Alshain

[Vaporized Steel]

Fine, then my complaint is to Squad. If I want to reach out to the people suffering from the issue at hand, apparently I have to conclude that the responsibility lies with Squad.
I'm giving in to that fact because it is a fact only because the system between the game distributor and steam makes it that.
It's the corporate gaming industry at hand, which is what Squad or any gaming company has to follow.

But that's just because it is seemingly managed that way. We make it that.
There are enough activists around for better relationships between supplier and customer willingly to make it different. My critique is to portray the problem which has to be resolved on both sides. With more Steam critique involved from my point of view. Which isn't fair, because fact or fact about whos responsible, both sides are responsible to make things better. Steam has the guts to make huge amount of profits just because of management and distribution. That opinion of mine has 2 sides. On one side it's prejudice, yes I admit, and on the other hand it's making use of products made by others.
The latter is completely normal. Because hardware stores sell hardware, they do not make it.
But when I walk into one I have the right to refund, professional assistance, and item exchange. Why does steam has no item exchange to swap V1 of a game with version 0.5? And as already expressed in my earlier reply also lacks assistance, then to say it is that way as a unchangeable thing, as if it were a status quo unchallengeable to critique or change.
Apparently some markets neglect things while other markets offer complete assistance.

Because of this I find the relationship between distributor and developer flawed,

Whether you can point out facts within the customer market or not, fine. Some facts are universal, some facts are what we make them to be, among those is a agreement of 2 parties like between distributor (steam) and developer (Squad) and they are not static laws but agreements that may be promoted for change. I want that!

I merely stating that this distributor / customer relationship fact is hitting on the customer. The same accounts for a Samsung TV bought at Walmart. If Walmart can't deliver upon services which I find should be universal then I would complain about that to. You state what is! One day in the past wooden huts were what once was. I thought we moved on since then.

Without discussing this relationship at all and just stating the facts we made through agreements between two parties will never change anything. And this attitude is one of the reasons why any industry is lacking inovation, whether it's service or production because this seems to have become a universal attitude among many. I'm not saying you have that attitude. I'm saying that I do not and it's why I go on about such critique in this case to Steam, and yes Squad to apparently.
I want to reach out to enhance these relationships, even if I don't manage anything beyond mentioning it, and in this case especially since I have had my annoyances with Steam.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Vaporized Steel

[PT]

10 hours ago, Alshain said:

1.0.5 is the previous stable version. First 1.1.2 wasn't stable (not that 1.1.3 is). However, it was also a patch release, where 1.0.5 was a major feature release.  The previous stable version doesn't count minor patches to the current version (because those patches are intended to stabilize the current version).  So, 1.1.2 doesn't count for that reason either, nor does 1.1, or 1.1.1, making 1.0.5 the previous stable release.

It would sound better if that stabilizing patch wouldn't destabilize game by breaking mods

[Sereneti]

i dont understand,
there ist the 1.05 version, the last stable version.
why only 1.1.X mods to download and the  1.0.5 mods "are gone"?
(no offense,...)

 

[DoctorDavinci]

On 2016-06-22 at 6:34 AM, KerbaDex said:

I just don't see how this is a steam issue? I'm curious as to why that would be for KSP/Squad specificaly

I have other games on Steam that seem to handle the beta branches contents themselves.

Other example of software using beta branches to hold the two latest versions up for the users.

Devs seem able to set branches with or without passwords, etc. 

What am I missing that would prevent this?

 

 

 

Ask Valve to explain it to you ... Squad isn't Valve hence they have no control over Steam

[Alshain]

10 hours ago, PT said:

It would sound better if that stabilizing patch wouldn't destabilize game by breaking mods

Breaking mods is not destabilizing the game.  It's what you accept will happen when you choose to use mods.