I don't understand "asparagus" staging.

[wumpus]

Some notes:

SRBs tend to give great "bang for the kerbuck" in terms of delta-v and thrust.  They dominate the "lost cost non-recoverable" contests for lifting things into low kerbin orbit.  Don't underestimate a SRB's ability to put lots of thrust on the pad (but don't expect to find many cases where you want to fire a SRB *after* launch.  They can happen, but are only going to be found by the most dedicated users of SRBs).

Asparagus staging makes less sense since typically larger engines work better than "asparagussing".  It still gives an improvement, especially for extreme cases like Eve, but is hardly a required trick in KSP anymore.

There is no reason for different asparagus stages to be equal size, in fact it is likely sub-optimal for them to be.  You almost certainly want the first stages you drop to have much bigger tanks than those you drop later.  I suspect that the current practice of "asparagus is done at equal size" is due to simply copying designs that were made for the souposphere (where constant TWR was optimal).

Asparagus can be generalized many ways.  Drop tanks (asparagus without the engines underneath) are still quite useful.  If you really want cheap (low cost/low mass/low drag) and can pump fuel throughout your rockets (which requires improving [I think] you science building in career mode) you can stick a fuel tank *above* your payload.  Have a small vacuum engine as a last stage, then put 2/3 of your fuel above the payload (and remember to set fuel flow or otherwise keep pumping that fuel).  This gives you a "free extra stage" and plenty of delta-v bonuses.

[strider3]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 4:42 PM, DD_bwest said:

in relation with your other thread about funds in career mode, ill make the tip that this launch vehicle is way more then what is needed to get that load into orbit. lol  Im not sure if that is a dummy load for testing, but that rocket could lift a heck of alot.   Its okay tho, as its something i used to do, and probably everyone.  Over engineer to get the job done, then as experience grows, wean back slowly.

This ship is designed to bring a science gathering lander (with 1 scientist and 1 engineer) to Duna. It is also designed to bring leftover fuel to pump into my Duna science orbiter with 1 scientist aboard (this orbiter is already in place). The fuel is needed to replenish the lander so it can make several Duna landings and return to the orbiter. I'm using 16 main and 8 drogue chutes to get me onto Duna with a minimum of fuel expended during landing. The engineer is basically along to re-pack the chutes before leaving Duna. It might still be overkill but I have since flown it to Duna with good results, including having enough leftover fuel to transfer to the orbiter, enabling 3 (maybe 4) Duna landings and returns.

[DD_bwest]

30 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

This ship is designed to bring a science gathering lander (with 1 scientist and 1 engineer) to Duna. It is also designed to bring leftover fuel to pump into my Duna science orbiter with 1 scientist aboard (this orbiter is already in place). The fuel is needed to replenish the lander so it can make several Duna landings and return to the orbiter. I'm using 16 main and 8 drogue chutes to get me onto Duna with a minimum of fuel expended during landing. The engineer is basically along to re-pack the chutes before leaving Duna. It might still be overkill but I have since flown it to Duna with good results, including having enough leftover fuel to transfer to the orbiter, enabling 3 (maybe 4) Duna landings and returns.

I just meant that the engines and orange tanks add up quickly in terms of cost, and that there may be more economical ways to get what you need into orbit.

[strider3]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 4:13 PM, DD_bwest said:

I just meant that the engines and orange tanks add up quickly in terms of cost, and that there may be more economical ways to get what you need into orbit.

I understand DD but this is, so far, the only way I have found to get a 2 kerbonaut lander, and extra fuel, into orbit around Duna. I'm always open to suggestions

[DD_bwest]

2 hours ago, Victor3 said:

I understand DD but this is, so far, the only way I have found to get a 2 kerbonaut lander, and extra fuel, into orbit around Duna. I'm always open to suggestions

ill see if i can put something together,  which stage is doing the duna transfer burn?  and how heavy is it fully fueled

 

edit: i should probably ask for cost aswell lol

Edited November 25, 2016 by DD_bwest

[strider3]

6 hours ago, DD_bwest said:

ill see if i can put something together,  which stage is doing the duna transfer burn?  and how heavy is it fully fueled

 

edit: i should probably ask for cost aswell lol

The Mammoth and central tanks do the transfer burn, if I remember correctly (Hey...I'm old, I've used up some brain cells in my life and I've been doing 1.2 and Career mode...)

Here's a pic, specs are at the bottom (is this what you needed?):

 

[DD_bwest]

ouch, getting the burn right with something to long can be a real pain.   using an upper stage would be a much better option.  here is one with a rhino, I tried to make the payload on top around the same weight.  i havent flown it, but it looks like it should be alright for that task.   the boosters are cross fed to the core.   stage "1"  is the lander, a poodle, 2 tanks, 6 legs and a bunch of chutes to simulate a load.     4 n 5 get you into orbit, if not you'll just need a touch of 3.  then you have alot of 3 for getting to duna and putting yourself in orbit, with a bunch to spare.   and the upper stage will be alot easier to handle.   the price tag doesnt hurt as much either

[strider3]

7 minutes ago, DD_bwest said:

ouch, getting the burn right with something to long can be a real pain.   using an upper stage would be a much better option.  here is one with a rhino, I tried to make the payload on top around the same weight.  i havent flown it, but it looks like it should be alright for that task.   the boosters are cross fed to the core.   stage "1"  is the lander, a poodle, 2 tanks, 6 legs and a bunch of chutes to simulate a load.     4 n 5 get you into orbit, if not you'll just need a touch of 3.  then you have alot of 3 for getting to duna and putting yourself in orbit, with a bunch to spare.   and the upper stage will be alot easier to handle.   the price tag doesnt hurt as much either

I agree that getting the thing lined up for the burn, when it has so much mass, is a pain. I especially like the much reduced cost! It will be awhile before I get back to this level, and Duna, in 1.2 career mode...but, at that time, I'll give this a shot.

Thanks buddy!

[DD_bwest]

5 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

I agree that getting the thing lined up for the burn, when it has so much mass, is a pain. I especially like the much reduced cost! It will be awhile before I get back to this level, and Duna, in 1.2 career mode...but, at that time, I'll give this a shot.

Thanks buddy!

 

NP,  I used to build big and asper everything,   but after some time playing RSS, i learned to break up my rockets alot nicer.  1.3 twr is just around perfect i find.   i like to build stages for specific tasks.  a booster stage for getting out of the heavy atmo,  a larger stage to get it nearly orbit,  and a final stage as the transfer stage, with a little bit extra built in to nicely circulize the orbit.

Edited November 26, 2016 by DD_bwest

[strider3]

Good stuff, DD...thanks! What is RSS, btw?

[DD_bwest]

51 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

Good stuff, DD...thanks! What is RSS, btw?

real solar system.  its a whole different beast lol