Tips on setting up a "strategy"

[strider3]

I am going to upgrade to 1.2 and re-try a Career mode game. My problem with career mode, in the past, was getting Funds. The Contracts would always jump way ahead of my abilities and equipment so I always ran out of cash early. Science, however, was much easier to collect. Unless 1.2 has made major changes to Contracts, I am going to employ the "Patents Licensing" strategy to trade Science for Funds. My question is; can anyone point me to a good tutorial on how to set this up? It seems there are some variables (from the limited info at the Wiki) that need to be set and I'm not sure what I should do to avoid problems.

 

Thanks for any guidance.

Vic

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

Leave the Admin building alone. It will only hurt you. You need that science.

[DD_bwest]

while not related to a strategy from the admin building,  on technique i did recently that got me tons of cash pretty quickly (especially in terms of launchs) was to park a ship with a tiny lander in orbit of minmus and head back to the space center and check contracts.  planting flag contracts pop up often, so i would grab one, plant a flag and return to orbit, only to click back to the center, grab another one and do it again lol they generally give 100 to 150 gran a pop. 

1.2 has made it so that a world first explore contract will always be available if you dont have one accepted. i find it makes things far more profitable when planning missions to new locations.

what this also means is that after  your first orbital launch, go back to mission control before you de orbit cause there will be a new contract to de orbit,  bring back science  from space will also pop up but might need a short warp for it to show up. and since your already up there and about to come down, will be completed anyways so its free profit

[strider3]

50 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

Leave the Admin building alone. It will only hurt you. You need that science.

I understand...but I need cash more. Funds have always been my limiting factor in a Career Mode game. I can get Science all day long.

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

Just now, Victor3 said:

I understand...but I need cash more. Funds have always been my limiting factor in a Career Mode game. I can get Science all day long.

SSTOs are your friend here.

[strider3]

2 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

SSTOs are your friend here.

SSTO's?

[DD_bwest]

2 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

SSTO's?

single stage to orbit. it is a major fund saver, it isnt needed. Creating a good SSTO is one of the magic tickets tho. 

[strider3]

Gotcha, thanks.

[DD_bwest]

also, if you complete the tech tree early enough,  turning science into money is fine.  but its not really recommended if your starting out, not really good at getting science, and generally need the new tech desperately.   There are a few of the 1000 point nodes that i hardly use at all, so ill often throw all my science into funds when i reach that point.

it is also possible to complete the whole tech tree with just the mun and minmus, leaving every other planet and moon for turning science into cash lol

[WanderingKid]

1 hour ago, Victor3 said:

I am going to upgrade to 1.2 and re-try a Career mode game. My problem with career mode, in the past, was getting Funds.

That's... unusual.  Cash usually isn't a concern until you're trying to hit the final tiers of buildings, and you should be long past where the admin building will help.  Well, either way:

Before you upgrade the building, you can only do a 25% commitment.  What that means is you can only trade up to 25% of your science towards funds.  The contract you want is Patents Licensing.  The funds to be gained are different depending on how you acquire the science.  If it's from a contract it's worth more.

Now, here's where things get confusing:  The more you commit to this plan, the more you'll get out of it in the long run.  At 5% commitment, per science (in hard) you get 84.064 funds for field work.  If you bring this up to 25%, you get 88.216 funds/science from field work.  So, a minor bit.  However, you'll get a lot more per experiment because you'll now be taking 25% of your science as funds instead of 5%.

This has a HUGE tradeoff however, and is incredibly expensive to setup.  The price to setup this plan before you even start will cost you 776 science at 25%, and a mere 263 science for 5%.  It won't cost you funds, it'll cost you science to sell the science.

I personally usually flip this.  I start out with a 25% funds - science strategy, which costs a small fortune but well worth it early, and then abuse world first contracts for a bit.  Once my science gathering is strong, I'll kill the strategy (12k/science seems excessive once I'm looking for hundreds at a time) and run *no* strategy.  Finally, once I've cleaned out the tech tree I'll go 100% Patents Licensing because... who needs science anymore?

Generally, though, strategies are not worth it unless you simply don't need one of your resources compared to another, you're losing out on the trade significantly.  I think you need to look into your costs and builds more severely if funds are a concern.  You shouldn't be having any significant funds problems unless you're trying to get to Duna on day 3.

Edited November 18, 2016 by WanderingKid

[Jarin]

Trade rep for funds. This gives two birds with one stone. Extra cash, and slowing the difficulty climb of contracts.

[DD_bwest]

i still think repetitively planting flags on minmus, with its tiny requirements for landing and back to orbit, is one of the faster methods for cash early and gets you a ton of science in the process 

[strider3]

21 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

That's... unusual.  Cash usually isn't a concern until you're trying to hit the final tiers of buildings, and you should be long past where the admin building will help.  Well, either way:

Before you upgrade the building, you can only do a 25% commitment.  What that means is you can only trade up to 25% of your science towards funds.  The contract you want is Patents Licensing.  The funds to be gained are different depending on how you acquire the science.  If it's from a contract it's worth more.

Now, here's where things get confusing:  The more you commit to this plan, the more you'll get out of it in the long run.  At 5% commitment, per science (in hard) you get 84.064 funds for field work.  If you bring this up to 25%, you get 88.216 funds/science from field work.  So, a minor bit.  However, you'll get a lot more per experiment because you'll now be taking 25% of your science as funds instead of 5%.

This has a HUGE tradeoff however, and is incredibly expensive to setup.  The price to setup this plan before you even start will cost you 776 science at 25%, and a mere 263 science for 5%.  It won't cost you funds, it'll cost you science to sell the science.

I personally usually flip this.  I start out with a 25% funds - science strategy, which costs a small fortune but well worth it early, and then abuse world first contracts for a bit.  Once my science gathering is strong, I'll kill the strategy (12k/science seems excessive once I'm looking for hundreds at a time) and run *no* strategy.  Finally, once I've cleaned out the tech tree I'll go 100% Patents Licensing because... who needs science anymore?

Generally, though, strategies are not worth it unless you simply don't need one of your resources compared to another, you're losing out on the trade significantly.  I think you need to look into your costs and builds more severely if funds are a concern.  You shouldn't be having any significant funds problems unless you're trying to get to Duna on day 3.

Maybe things have changed in the last 2 releases? Or maybe I've never quite understood how to get funds. AFAIK, without using any "strategy", the only way to get funds is through Contracts...and in my past attempts at Career Mode, the available contracts start outpacing my abilities (mostly Funds)? In other words, I complete a Contract that requires, say...orbiting Kerbin. After that my next Contracts available are for the Mun and such...something I am hardly prepared for after only one Kerbin orbit contract? I can get much Science on my own with field work...but I always seem to come up short of funds...funds needed to build the ship for these next contracts.

I hope I'm explaining the dilemma correctly.

7 minutes ago, DD_bwest said:

i still think repetitively planting flags on minmus, with its tiny requirements for landing and back to orbit, is one of the faster methods for cash early and gets you a ton of science in the process 

But don't you have to have a Contract available asking you to plant a flag on Minmus?

Edited November 18, 2016 by strider3

[DD_bwest]

21 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

Maybe things have changed in the last 2 releases? Or maybe I've never quite understood how to get funds. AFAIK, without using any "strategy", the only way to get funds is through Contracts...and in my past attempts at Career Mode, the available contracts start outpacing my abilities (mostly Funds)? In other words, I complete a Contract that requires, say...orbiting Kerbin. After that my next Contracts available are for the Mun and such...something I am hardly prepared for after only one Kerbin orbit contract? I can get much Science on my own with field work...but I always seem to come up short of funds...funds needed to build the ship for these next contracts.

I hope I'm explaining the dilemma correctly.

But don't you have to have a Contract available asking you to plant a flag on Minmus?

they tend to show up once you have been to a target,  which was pointed out to me after i was venting about contracts.  so if you put a command vessel with a lander in orbit, and go back to the space center, itll know you are ready for minmus contracts, and a plant flag contract should show up in do order, if it isnt, warp for 3-5 days and check again.  there is a very small hit to rep, but it is worth it since every time you get a flag contract and complete it, your rep will go up.

I was doing a career to fill the tree in the least amount of missions(single launches) possible, and on the 4th mission,realized i would have enough science to do it, but not the cash.   since  at the time i still had 24 planned landings to make(mun included), i just kept going back to accept new flag planting contracts. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by DD_bwest

[WanderingKid]

3 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

Maybe things have changed in the last 2 releases? Or maybe I've never quite understood how to get funds. AFAIK, without using any "strategy", the only way to get funds is through Contracts...and in my past attempts at Career Mode, the available contracts start outpacing my abilities (mostly Funds)? In other words, I complete a Contract that requires, say...orbiting Kerbin. After that my next Contracts available are for the Mun and such...something I am hardly prepared for after only one Kerbin orbit contract? I can get much Science on my own with field work...but I always seem to come up short of funds...funds needed to build the ship for these next contracts.

I hope I'm explaining the dilemma correctly.

You are.  I've been playing with Career since it came out in 0.90, so it's not a dramatic change, they've adjusted nuances.  However, I'm curious how expensive your ships are. 

You start with 10k in funds on Hard Mode.  First two contracts, Gather Science Data from Kerbin and Launch our first vessel net you another 8/9k from a ship that's completely refundable, so 20k.  Escaping Atmo and Orbiting gets you in the vicinity of another 100k, though with a more disposable ship.

That puts you at 110,000 roots or so after your first orbit, not including some side contracts, and a pod with two goo containers, a crew report, and an EVA will net you starter science from the runway and Launchpad.  My typical orbiters costs ~10-12k/each.  If you can get up there with an extra 900 d/v, you can get a free return flyby of Mun.  While you CAN land and whatnot without conics, I don't recommend it, but learning to do an upgradeless free return is a valuable skill for career.  Basically, wait for Munrise from LKO, aim prograde, burn to an apoapsis of 14.5 million, and wait.  You don't need to upgrade to a heavier pad for this.  I do recommend upgrading the pad before trying for Mun landings though.  It's tough to get a lander inside 18 tons with any kind of reliability on getting them home.

Most of my ships for contracts come in at 12-14k a piece unless I'm doing something severe, like launching 5000 units of fuel up for a space station or something equally silly.  I also do one thing you may not be doing.  Driving for satellites.  You need to get to electrics for the Okto to do these well, but once you've driven down to that corner of the tree and start putting up satellites everywhere (which you want anyway!) they're typically worth 75-100k /contract.

So, you need to be efficient.  Don't bring your Kerbal down from orbit until you check for more contracts.  If you can get him EVA while he's up there already, pick up a bunch of extra science while you're on your trip.   Cheap tourist missions (once you're ready for it) to orbit Kerbin or flyby Mun (NOT landing) are a good way to pick up some extra cash too hauling only 1 ton of cargo. 

One thing to NOT do is care about any of the parts contracts unless you look at them and go "I'm going to be doing that ANYWAY...."  Don't lose rep by skipping them, just let them expire without you caring.  Be selective.

[Kerbart]

32 minutes ago, Jarin said:

Trade rep for funds. This gives two birds with one stone. Extra cash, and slowing the difficulty climb of contracts.

But that kills your tourist contracts. And those can be ridiculously profitable.

I find that a couple of things help regarding the money aspect in career:

• Focus on cheap standard designs to get into orbit. A one-Kerbal launcher should cost about $20,000, perhaps even less
• Build a hub & spoke Kerbin system. I ferry shuttle to and from Kerbin Station, and from there transporters to and from Mun and Minmus station, and from there landers to the surface. There are contracts to build these stations, so they come basically for free. Don't start too early, you want to have some technology (like regular sized docking ports) to prevent you from scrapping and existing one and having to build a new one. And those "send science data from orbit of ..." are a great way to get some extra cash
• Have faith in space tourism. The countracts start out pretty lousy, but as your reputation grows you'll quickly get these 6-kerbal $80,000/kerbal contracts.
• Keep an eye out for solar space stations. Those are where the real money is made. Make sure they don't require to have kerbals on board.

In my current career I have all buildings maxed and $5M in the bank, without too much effort.

[strider3]

Thanks guys. I'm going to have to read up on Free Return. The other thing is I might have to learn to be more economical in ship building. In the past I have slowly weaned myself from the "Tim the Tool Guy" attitude..."More Power!" LOL. Maybe a "Binford 9000" type ship is not the best way to go? LOL. For all you young'uns and non-Americans...look up the old TV show "Home Improvement".

I have really been showing my age here this week   ;-P

 

Vic

[DD_bwest]

1 minute ago, Victor3 said:

Thanks guys. I'm going to have to read up on Free Return. The other thing is I might have to learn to be more economical in ship building. In the past I have slowly weaned myself from the "Tim the Tool Guy" attitude..."More Power!" LOL. Maybe a "Binford 9000" type ship is not the best way to go? LOL. For all you young'uns and non-Americans...look up the old TV show "Home Improvement".

I have really been showing my age here this week   ;-P

 

Vic

2 science nodes that are important are propulsion and precision propulsion.  you can get alot done by going small, and saves in alot of places.

[strider3]

I should probably tell you why these questions all came about. I've been playing in Science mode and I've made one landing on Duna (the farthest planet I've gone to), gathered science data and am processing it now in an MPL in Duna orbit...and my Science tree is completed before all the data from Duna is processed! Seems too easy in Science mode. Yes...I AM "that guy"...the one who always wants to do the "full on" thing. .

Vic

[WanderingKid]

29 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

I should probably tell you why these questions all came about. I've been playing in Science mode and I've made one landing on Duna (the farthest planet I've gone to), gathered science data and am processing it now in an MPL in Duna orbit...and my Science tree is completed before all the data from Duna is processed! Seems too easy in Science mode. Yes...I AM "that guy"...the one who always wants to do the "full on" thing. .

Vic

Don't feel too bad, you're not the only one.  Here's an example of something you should be able to orbit (single Kerbal) for ~5k:

Mk1 Command Pod with a  Mk 16 Chute on the nose, T-18A decoupler, 9 stacked T-200 tanks, 3 basic fins at end (Upgrade to taste), T-45 Engine.

1.35 TWR on pad, Space D/v of 3,904, 12.645t launch weight at 16 parts and 13.2m tall.

With a couple of solar panels, an MG-5 or 16-S, and an Okto under the chute it doubles as a LKO Kerbal rescue ship, getting to orbit with ~325 d/v remaining.

Edited November 19, 2016 by WanderingKid

[Jarin]

3 hours ago, Kerbart said:

But that kills your tourist contracts. And those can be ridiculously profitable.

Nah nah nah, trade earned rep for cash. Your rep doesn't go down, it just goes up more slowly. Which means you keep getting the same level of contract you like.

[bewing]

3 hours ago, Victor3 said:

The other thing is I might have to learn to be more economical in ship building.

Yup, that is the entire point of career mode. It will force you to learn to be economical and minimalist with your rockets, or run out of kash as a punishment. Perhaps learn to recover stages. Perhaps learn to land and recover as much of your upper stage as possible. Airplanes and SSTOs can complete contracts and return to the runway for a 100% funds recovery -- very economical! Gravity turns save money. Etc.

[Geschosskopf]

6 hours ago, Victor3 said:

My question is; can anyone point me to a good tutorial on how to set this up? It seems there are some variables (from the limited info at the Wiki) that need to be set and I'm not sure what I should do to avoid problems.

I find stock strategies inherently useless.  They all trade 1 currency for another but you need all 3.  Rep gets better contracts which get more money and science, etc.  However, worse come to worst, money is the most important, then science, then rep.  Without money, you're can't upgrade buildings, and without upgraded buildings, you can't really do much at all.  Science then lets you get more value out of the rockets you can use with your existing facilities.  However, without the excess money to upgrade the Admin building, you can't do much with strategies, and that upgrade money give better return on other buildings or launches.

Thus, the only time I use strategies at all is when I've already completed the tech tree so no longer need science points.,  By then, I really need money to fund my Glorious Space Empire, so I choose the strategy that converts nearly all science to money.  Also by then, I've got enough rep that contracts are very profitable, so I might trade rep for cash as well.

[Orbin]

One strange thing I ran into at the amin building was this:

I wanted to set up two strategies, trading 50% of my science gains for money and the other half for rep. But after setting up the first strategy it said I can't activate the second as I would exceed 100% resource spent. I couldn't set up the second strategy even at 5%...

I don't use the amin building much, so I've no experience, but how is it possible to trade one resource for two others?

Edit: Sorry if it's a little off  topic... 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Orbin

[bewing]

@Orbin: I'll do some tests and see if you've spotted a fixable bug here.