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ScrapyardBob's KSP 1.2 Career - Dec 2016 (image heavy)


WuphonsReach

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This is a new game compared to my KSP 1.0.5 career thread.  Some things have changed in KSP 1.2, some mods are no longer available, and other mods have come into existence.  Plus, there's the new features that KSP 1.1 and 1.2 brought.

The newest mod that I'll be using is one of my own creation called Stock Antenna Balance.  It's basically a lite version of RT that works solely through modifying the antenna power / mass / cost / energy requirements of Squad's stock antennas.  It puts a larger emphasis on relay satellites as the direct-connect antennas can no longer reach back from Eeloo to Kerbin.  All the magic is done through ModuleManager patches so it reuses existing components that Squad (or others) have provided.

I also use some welded parts created through UbioZur Welding Continued, which are then modified to have the storage capacity that I want, or add USI-LS storage, or tweak costs / dry mass or other things.  The welded parts are maintained at my GitHub repository.  Selective use of welded parts helps reduce wobble and part count.

The third is a set of MM patches that creates modified versions of Squad, Modular Rocket Systems, SpaceY, or other parts to add things like battery capacity, USI-LS storage.  This is mostly done to reduce part count and these new or modified parts have mass / costs increased to balance out the additional capabilities.

Current list of addon DLLs (from KSP.log):

kOS.Safe v1.0.3.0
kOS v1.0.3.0
CCK v1.2.1.0
CLSInterfaces v1.0.0.0
ContractConfigurator v1.0.0.0 / v1.22.2
ContractParser v1.0.5.0 / vv5.0
ContractsWindow.Unity v1.0.7.2
ContractsWindow v1.0.7.2 / vv7.2
DMagic v1.3.0.6 / vv1.3.6
DockingPortAlignmentIndicator v1.0.0.0
DPAI_RPM v1.0.0.0
Firespitter v7.3.6195.32439
HaystackContinued v0.5.2.1
ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib v0.86.0.518 / v0.86.0
KerbalAlarmClock v3.8.3.0
KerbalJointReinforcement v3.3.1.0
KolonyTools v1.0.0.0
Konstruction v0.0.0.0
kOS.Safe v1.0.3.0
kOS v1.0.3.0
KSPRescuePodFix v1.0.0.0
MechJeb2 v2.5.1.0 / vDev #675 Sarbian / v2.6.0.0
MiniAVC v1.0.3.2
ModuleDockingNodeNamed v1.0.0.0
ModuleManager.2.7.5 v2.7.5.0
ProgressParser v1.0.6.0 / vv6.0
SCANsat v1.6.0.11 / vv16.11
ShipManifest v5.1.3.1
SmartParts v1.7.0.0
USILifeSupport v1.0.0.0
USITools v1.0.0.0
[x] Science! v5.4.6185.40021

 

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Unfortunately, Kerbal Construction Time (KCT) is not in my mod list yet.  There are rumors of a developer version being updated for 1.2, but nothing solid yet.

As with my 1.0.5 career, I'll be boosting myself with 10M in funds and 1500 science.  I see that a lot of the Imgur albums from last year are now broken, so I'll stick with single images (which still work).  All buildings will be immediately upgraded to level 3, except for the Tracking Station which I'll leave at level 2.  It's just shy of 10M in funds to upgrade the KSC, which leaves me 179k in funds to play with.

Difficulty options:

  • Start with "moderate" (allows quick-save and reverting of flights)
  • Disable extra ground stations (advanced game difficulty settings)
  • Enable plasma blackout
  • Vac occlusion modifier = 1.02, Atm occlusion modifier = 0.98
  • DSN modifier = 0.10 (10% of normal)
  • Range modifier = 0.90
  • Enable part pressure and g-force limits
  • Enable Kerbal G-Force Limits (2.5g tolerance)

LCGiQlZ.png

nPJokG5.png

So there will be very little reliance on the built-in DSN, I'll have to put relay satellites into orbit around Kerbin to talk to pretty much anywhere outside of Kerbin's SoI (sphere of influence).

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Since we have no Kerbin ground stations, getting a few relay satellites up early is going to be important.  My first relays will be using the HG-5, with (3) per satellite.  These do combine and will give a reasonable starting point (the DTS-M1 will be able to send back from Minmus with 100% coverage).  I'll need to put up one of these to start in KEO orbit over KSC with an orbital period of 6h 0m 0s.

Initial orbit is 85km (my default orbit, which allows for a lot of wiggle room if the launch is messy).  Make sure you deploy your HG-5 antennas after getting into orbit.  As you come around and KSC is directly below, it's time to kick your Ap out to about 2863km by initiating a 660 m/s prograde burn.  Then circularize at Ap to have an orbital period of exactly 6h, roughly centered over KSC (it may take a few orbits to get this right).

I use MechJeb's "orbit info" window to figure out how close I am to my orbital period.  Once you have the orbit period set, I suggest disabling the main engine.  If you're having trouble getting the period to within 1/10th of a second of ideal, try launching with RCS thrusters (and some monopropellant) and use those to fine tune.  Or burn at an angle slightly off of +/- normal, and slightly prograde/retrograde.  You'll end up with a slightly inclined orbit, but it doesn't matter for a KEO satellite.

After the unlocking of parts, cost to build the launch vehicle (39k), and rewards from the starting contracts plus "world firsts", I now have 392k in funds.  That's enough to put up the 2nd relay in a highly elliptical orbit over Kerbin's north pole.  I did look for a contract suitable for this, but it required adding a materials bay and the Ap/Pe was 25Mm.

Launch should be a polar launch, time of day does not matter.  Get the polar relay into orbit, deploy the HG-5 relay antennas, then kick the Ap to as high as possible by burning at the south pole of Kerbin.  My polar launch had about 1800 m/s of dV left, so I was able to get an Ap of 15 Mm (needs about 875 m/s) with a Pe of only 85km.

I could have put the Ap as high as 75Mm, but since I'm only using an HG-5, and getting too far above the plane of Minmus means a science probe to Minmus with a Comm-16 would barely be able to reach back.  So having 3x HG-5 and a lower Ap of 15Mm will work well for the start.  (A relay at Minmus or using the DTS-M1 would make things even easier.)  The orbital period for an 85km/15Mm Kerbin elliptical orbit is 3d4h38m, so there will be very long windows where the relay satellite is above the plane of Minmus and able to bounce a signal to the KEO if KSC is occluded by Kerbin.

fotF55c.png

With atmospheric occlusion at 98%, it can even reach KSC directly from the top part of the orbit.  This makes it even better at acting as relay for distant probes.

 

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I have a contract offer for a keostationary satellite above a specific point on Kerbin's surface.  This is a good excuse to put up another HG-5 relay satellite (~35k cost) in exchange for a 136k payout.  There's another contract for putting a satellite with a GORESat instrument into orbit around the Mun which I may also grab.  I'm keeping my eyes open for a Minmus contract as well, or another Kerbin polar contract with reasonable equipment requirements.

Note: a orbit with a Pe of 85km and Ap of 75Mm has a 36 day orbital period.  This is a great orbit for Kerbin polar relays once you unlock the RA-2 and larger relay antennas.  Put two up, one above the north pole and one below the south pole, make sure their orbits are offset by 80-90 degrees and you'll have ~99% coverage to the other planets without Kerbin being in the way.

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I've now put an RA-2 into a polar orbit around Kerbin with a Pe of 85km and an Ap of 75Mm (~36 day period).  The DTS-M1 won't reach back from any of the inner-planets, but I have 100% coverage anywhere within Kerbin's SoI (and good coverage out to maybe 2Gm with one).

My next major project (pending contracts and windows which are don't start for 190+ days) is to put an RA-2 in polar orbit around Duna, Dres, and Eve.  I'll likely also launch a MAG-RPWS satellite as well, because DMagic's mod gives me repeating contracts to run long contracts using the Magnometer / RPWS at the various bodies.  As long as that satellite uses a DTS-M1, it can talk to the mothership with an RA-2 during the journey.

Probe landings are starting for Minmus and the Mun.

AhnUhHm.png

It only has a thermometer and Dynamic Albedo of Neutrons (DAN) experiment on it, but it's a start.  I don't have lander legs, so I'm using Radial Airbags from USI.  The mothership uses the new fairings and holds (2) Alfie landers.  With the HG-5 antenna, it also acts as a relay link back to KSC.

JeAErck.png

Because I don't detach the lander until just before the landing burn, it will still be overhead at touchdown and relays control signals.

Future Alfie landers will get a Magnetometer boom from DMagic, I'm starting to get contracts to take magnetic readings at surface sites on the Mun/Minmus in addition to temperature readings.  Although I might need rovers to do that.

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T-40d until the Duna window opens.  Time to put my fleet into orbit:

  • (1) relay satellite with (8) 1x6 solar panels and an RA-2 relay antenna
  • (2) MAG-RPWS satellites for Duna and Ike, probably modified Alphie landers on a HG-5 relay mothership
  • (1) Alphie lander mothership (another HG-5 relay)

The Eve fleet and Dres fleets will be similar (Moho is too hard given my current tech level).  The Dres window opens in 194d and Eve window in 353d.

This gives me two landing attempts, MAG-RPWS sats for DMagic contracts, and both a long-distance relay (RA-2) and a pair of short-range relays (HG-5) around the target worlds.

Also, found this post which explains USI scavenging mechanics for surface bases:

And a post explaining what a Quartermaster, etc. does:

 

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2M in the bank, but I'm low on science.  I need to do more landers at Minmus/Mun, plus start doing orbital surveys and other science contracts.

My RA-2 launcher is a bit of a gamble right now, with a success rate of about 75%.  This is due to aero/drag issues when separating the SRBs from the first stage, about 1/4 of the time they impact the side of the stage and cause explosions.  Once I unlock the SpaceY decouplers with built-in separatron rockets, these problems go away for good.

Going to only send an RA-2 relay to Dres.  I'm not 100% confident that the signal will be good enough to send motherships with just the HG-5 relay antenna.  Once I put an RA-15 in orbit, or get an RA-2 on Eve and possibly in a lower Kerbol orbit as well, I'll definitely have the range.  Well, maybe I'll send a lander mothership, since I can afford it, if it goes wrong, it was inexpensive.

My little lander now has (4) experiments on it: Thermometer (stock), Magnetometer boom (DMagic), DAN (DMagic) and I've unlocked the Surface Ablation Laser Light Imager (SALLI, also from DMagic).  I'm running out of surface area on the little landers so I may have to diversify or move to a larger footprint.  The lander is now named Sally in honor of the SALLI instrument.

I've picked up MAG-RPWS contracts for both Duna and Ike, they pay out about 200 science and 220k funds.  The mothership is already en route to Duna with a pair of MAG-RPWS probes on board, so that worked out nicely.

 

 

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Pushed out a new release of my Stock Antenna Balance mod.  So far I'm pretty happy with the balance.  The only weird thing so far is that my ships will prefer a direct link to KSC, even if the signal is only 1%, over using the stronger relay satellite in orbit around Kerbin.  I'm pretty sure this is stock behavior and can only be fixed by lowering the DSN strength in the difficulty options.

 

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The (2) motherships plus the RA-2 relay sat are arriving at Eve soon (year 2, day 243), combined with the RA-2 that I put into a 7Gm orbit around Kerbol, that gives me decent coverage.  I have over 3M funds in the bank and have progressed down the tech tree a bit more.  

Starting to unlock station parts and larger engines, so I'll be thinking about a Kerbin space station soon as well as dealing with MKS / USI-LS resource issues.  That will quickly drain that 3M in funds!

TODO list:

  • Get the RA-2 relay into a polar orbit around Eve (130km Pe, 65Mm Ap)
  • Setup the MAG-RPWS micro satellites around Eve/Gilly
  • Do landings on Ike with probe landers
  • Do landings on Gilly with probe landers
  • Put the Duna / Eve motherships with HG-5 relay antennas into useful orbits
  • More landings on Mun/Minmus
  • Get RADAR, multi-spec, M700 sats up around Mun/Minmus and start scanning with SCANSat

My RA-2 relay going to Dres ran out of power.  Even with (8) of the 1x6 solar panels, I don't have enough generation capacity due to the solar power curve at that distance.  That means the mothership with the Dres landers has no connection back to KSC and is useless as well.

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(chuckle) While swooping low enough to get a "low orbit" MAG/RPWS reading around Gilly, I managed to crash into something.  I think.  I was waiting on another vessel for the maneuver node time and the probe around Gilly just vanished.  :o

Oh well, I did at least gather some science from the two experiments, but I won't be taking any MAG-RPWS contracts from DMagic for Gilly any time soon.

Working on getting my Sally lander mothership into orbit around Gilly.  With such a small SoI, it's a tough intercept.  I've heard bad things about equatorial landings, so I'm going to land near the poles from a highly inclined mothership orbit.  But that's 15+ days away, so I should see what else I can do in the meantime.

The little lander design turned into a micro satellite with about 1200 dV is working well.  Not only am I using them for MAG-RPWS sats, but also using them for RADAR and SCANSat Multi-Spec survey work as a mothership can carry one of each kind.  I can't quite get (3) into a single 1.25m fairing, but I'm going to try harder.

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Close-up of the Sally lander in its folded up configuration.  When launching these, I have to make sure that MechJeb Ascent Guidance is set to *not* auto-deploy solar panels once the launcher reaches orbit or I'll have trouble getting these out of the fairing truss.

Light toggle -> deploys solar panels and takes all science readings

Gear toggle -> deploys the air bags (white boxes)

U5cCco3.png

The ALT-Pro (orange box on the side) from Smart Parts is set to trigger the "gear" action at 200m on descent.  

This also shows the DAN (Dynamic Albedo of Neutrons) experiment from DMagic strapped to the side below the ALT-Pro control.

GZ65N2j.png

One of the Sally landers, on Gilly's north pole.  Although with Gilly, you don't such much as land as much as you just station-keep...

I may adjust the Sally lander configuration to also have a second set of airbags up top so that the probe can tumble and roll without damage.  Although it's so light and gravity on Mun/Minus/Gilly is so low that it can currently tumble without damage and use the reaction wheels to turn itself right-side up. 

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Alpha station is taking shape in the VAB designer.  My goal is capacity for 4-6 kerbals with enough "habitability" for 100+ days in orbit at full capacity.  

I'll be using one of my welded parts as the station core as it combines the function of the MPL-LG-2 lab with USI-LS storage, fuel storage, mono-prop storage, some battery capacity, and reaction wheels into a single part.  The costs/mass are equivalent to what it would take to put all of these together separately.  I get (4) 1.25m mounting points and (4) 2.5m mounting points around the waist, and 2.5m mounting points at the nose and tail.

The starter kit is going to be somewhere around 75-90t, other parts can come up and be attached via Konstruction ports.  This will mainly be the two large 8x solar arrays on each side of the station.

Hab math:

  • Station core has a hab rating of 0 (MPL has no hab rating)
  • MKS 'Tundra' Kerbitat configured as Hab-Common has a multiplier of 2.35 for 4 kerbals, plus adds 2 months of base hab time
  • MKS 'Tundra' Habitation Ring adds 497.5 kerbal-months of base habitation time
  • (4) Cupolas add 1 month each, and give a multiplier of 1.65 for 2 kerbals each

If I've done the math right, that gives me a base of 503.5 kerbal-months of habit, multiplied by about a factor of 5.65 if I have four kerbals on the station.  The current configuration has room for a maximum of 11, but my planned crew is only four.

The 80t payload mass is going to be at the upper-limit of what I can currently get into orbit with just 2.5m tanks and Mainsail engines.  But the station core acts as a 3rd stage with a Poodle strapped to the bottom for station keeping.  I'm going to use strap-on boosters around the first stage to get off the pad and get the TWR back up to around 1.05-1.10 by the time the boosters run out of fuel.

Launch cost is about 225k.

The solar arrays, supplies, machinery, fertilizer, and other consumables (Kerbals?) will go up in separate launches.

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Unlocked the RA-15 relay.  Going to launch them soon:

  • One in a Kerbin north orientation (85km Pe, 75Mm Ap, ~34 day orbit period)
  • One in a Kerbin south orientation
  • Kerbol orbit at 7Gm (like the RA-2 I launched earlier), good for bouncing things around Kerbol
  • Send one to Eve at the next window
  • One in an equatorial KEO orbit over KSC

That gives me the option to put an RA-2 at Eeloo / Jool and get ~75% signal at closest approach.

I think that the current MechJeb ascent guidance has trouble with rockets that have too much control authority.  So if your rocket is wobbling all around and struggling to stay on a heading, it might be too much control instead of not enough.  I'm still experimenting with that theory.

Lots of Sally landers on the Mun and Minmus have unlocked most of the 300 and 550 science nodes.  That gives me access to a lot of goodies.

Jeb, Bill and Bob hitched a ride on the first crew vehicle into space (at the start of year 3).  They're on their way to Alpha station in Kerbin orbit (200km).  Habitation value of a Mk 1-2 pod is only ~7 days with 3 kerbals inside, but it's not that hard to get to the orbital station within that time period.

CCW073Z.png

But before the kerbals arrive at the station, I need to stock it with supplies.  I've had a supply vessel in orbit for a while now, but hadn't done the rendevous, docking and unloading yet.

IbCQbLT.jpg

That holds RCS fuel, USI-LS supplies and fertilizer, plus LF/Ox that will all get dumped into the stations storage tanks.

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I expect that when I dock with (3) kerbals to a station in the initial configuration, that the hab values are not going to be very good.  I don't have enough power yet (the solar panel trusses are not installed yet) to fire up all the major hab modules from USI.

USI-LS report (y3 d10) - 153 days of life support supplies for 3 kerbals (4500 units), hab time of 34d and the homesick timer went up to 42d because it's a nice station with all the cupolas.

The 'Tundra' Kerbitat (configured as Hab-Common) requires about 2.5 EC/s.  Not too bad, and I can probably run that while craft are visiting using just their solar panels.  That boosted the Hab/Home timer to 117d/116d.

Each of the little cupolas also use EC at a rate of about 0.8 EC/s, that raises the power draw to 5.8 EC/s total and changes the Hab/Home timers to 271d/271d for three kerbals.

Those numbers will go up a lot once I fire up the Habitation Ring, but I don't have the power to do that and I've shut down everything except the Kerbitat.

It's a stick...

5RCWKdN.png

The ports at the middle waist are USI Konstruction ports, and the (2) solar panel trusses will attach on opposite sides to start.  The other two ports can be used for future expansion.

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Lining it up was not that painful, the part is really light and the tug still had a good bit of mass on it so there was plenty of control.

Qw9OvJh.png

First hit was a miss, I forgot to control from the front construction port (I think) or I wasn't quite aligned properly.  Got it after backing off a few meters and trying again.

Q8yGT3J.png

That will supply 24x8 EC/s (192 EC/s) of power to the station.  Since it's a welded part (PT08), it also contains 8000 EC of battery inside for a bit more power storage.

I'm going to redesign the tug for the next attempt, now that I know this works.  Plus I'll make sure to dump all the fuel and RCS into the station tanks before I disengage next time.

FSlxUrg.png

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In order to expand the Habitation Ring, I need 46,000 material kits.  I overlooked that requirement, so I'll have to figure out how to get that much into orbit.

The 2.5m Kontainer (2t dry mass) holds 16,000 material kits.  So I'll need to bring (3) of those into orbit at a cost of 40k each just for the cargo.  Because I only have (2) 1.25m docking ports on the station, I'll need to do it in (2) launches. at 136k cost each.

This is pretty easy, because when I built that supply vessel, I packed all the electronics, RCS, and other goodies into the end caps.  While the probe core is in the middle (for stability of control), it can be easily shifted back and forth to accommodate the cargo.

Next station... build more docking ports.

zG2Iaal.png

That holds 23,200 material kits (max capacity of 25,000).

Estimated station costs so far:

  • 225k - station core
  • 84k x 2 - solar power trusses
  • 138k x 2 - material kits to expand habitation ring
  • 108k - first load of USI-LS supplies and fertilizer

Total: 777k funds

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Bill is all alone on the station, Jeb and Bob flew off in the CRV (crew return vehicle) to free up a space on the station.  They didn't go far, just down to a 100km parking orbit.

5RcuPKc.png

So, looking at the USI-LS readout (the big green cube on the toolbar), we can see a few things about how habitation works in the USI-LS mod.

  • The homesick (home) timer is still way up there at 1y294d for Jeb and Bob, even though they've been crammed back into a tiny capsule (which is why their "hab" time is only 10d).  They've seen a nice station, so they're content for a while not to return to Kerbin.
  • The hab timer for Jeb and Bob is 10d instead of 7d.  That's because there's about 21 kerbal-days of "hab" time in the three-seater capsule.  With only two kerbals to share the space, they each get 10 days of "hab" time.
  • Because Bill is all alone on that big station, his "home" timer went up to 1y394d.  He's much happier and can stay away from Kerbin for longer.  His "hab" timer is also really high because he's got all that room to stretch out without Jeb & Bob getting in the way.

 

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The ring has been expanded.

1TcHP1g.png

This also made Bill really happy.

2G7Fyve.png

So now the hab time is up to 3y 292d for Bill.  That's (426.08 x 3y + 292) kerbin-days of habitat (1570 kerbal-days), divided by a planned crew of 6 equals about 262 days of hab time.

Oops, forgot to right-click and start the habitat ring.  Now it's 73y 242d for Bill.  He's *really* happy now (his homesick value is 73y 240d).  It's about 31,344 kerbal-days of hab time, which will only be 2849 days per kerbal if I pack it with 11 kerbals.

So the constraining factor on getting kerbals to Eeloo and back is going to be life support supplies (recyclers + fertilizer + greenhouses) and not hab-time.  Or maybe machinery (to keep the hab-ring running).

---

Power draw for all that? about 34 EC/s.

"Home" time with 3 kerbals on board? 19y 155d (possibly because some of the multiplier parts only support 2 kerbals).

Edited by WuphonsReach
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My original estimate was:

Quote

503.5 kerbal-months of hab, multiplied by about a factor of 5.65 if I have four kerbals on the station

503.5 x 30 = 15,105 kerbal-days x 5.65 = 85,343 kerbal-days, so my original estimate was very much on the high side by a factor of almost 3x.

The actual result is 19y (x426.08 days/year) + 155d x 3 kerbals = 24,751 kerbal-days of hab.  Which is only a multiplier of 1.63 (assuming the 503.5 kerbal-months of hab as a base was correct).

So I don't understand something in the math, or it's because my kerbals are all level one, or I don't understand the multipliers correctly.

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Turned the DSN strength down to 0.01 in my difficulty options.  This should make it more likely that distant sats will talk to the RA-15s in orbit around Kerbin rather then the antenna at KSC (I already have extra ground stations disabled).

Somewhere along the line I promised to build a station around Ike... oops.  It's not a demanding contract and I don't actually have to populate it with Kerbals, so I'll probably go ahead and do a minimal one.

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Going to play with the DMagic Seismic Sensor Pods experiment.  It's documented in the in-game KSPedia, but the general gist is:

  • Make sure the hammer can touch the ground when banging
  • Deploy (using the "decouple" right-click action) at least two sensor pods
  • Have them at an angle from the hammer (draw a line from each pod to the hammer, measure the angle)
  • Launching more pods (up to five will count) may be a good idea

So what I have is a pair of Thor landers, each with five sensor pods to be deployed.

PbIwtG0.jpg

mETJOT3.jpg

42j2nV0.jpg

The large white boxes are the small airbags from USI.  I use those as landing gear and to deal with bad landings (the craft can tumble without something breaking off).

There is an ALT-Pro Smart Part set to trigger at 25m above ground level (AGL) on descent.  That triggers all of the "decouple" actions on the sensor pods, plus inflates the air bags for landing.  

In tests at KSC, the "decouple" gave me distances of roughly 100-150m for the sensor pods.  I'm hoping for better distance on the Mun & Minmus.

These are single-use and probably short-lived landers.  Other then the small DERP solar panel at the top, which is not motorized (so it might deploy at a bad sun angle), there's no power generation on board.  However, the reaction wheel is strong enough that I can flip the craft head over tail in Kerbin's gravity and carefully walk it down to the seaside (it's fiddly, but sturdy).

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First test is a success, all five sensor pods were deployed at 100% decoupling power at 25m AGL.  The nearest is 424m, the most distant is 1.8km.  Ideally, I should have some at 0.5-2.5km and some at 4-15km.  

Still, not too bad.  I'll have to experiment with ALT-Pro firing heights (maybe 50m AGL or 75m AGL).  I might also need to set at least one of the decouplers to 25% or 50% power.

Second test was mixed, but I also landed inside a moderate sized crater.  Pods were triggered at 50m, one exploded on impact, the other four are 380-1000m away. 

Third time was not the charm.  Ejecting them at 125m AGL resulted in three of the five  pods being destroyed, the remaining two are at 1070-1180m away. 

Try #4 - only two of the five survived when ejected at 75m AGL on the Mun during descent.  One at 900m and one at 1.5km.

Of the four trials, #1 resulted in the most science (72), the others only gave amounts in the 25-45 range.

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