Relay Kesslers

[Atubara]

Ever since I watched Danny's video about playing around with the relay networks in his first time of 1.2, I have become obsessed with his design that shot off several probes in orbit of the Mun.

I want to expand on this idea, something I like to call Relay Kesslers. My dream relay kessler would include about 12-18 probes that include their own reaction wheels, boosters, solar panels, and of course, the relays. This is heavy, RAM intensive, and somewhat impractical if the kessler itself had enough Dv to transport the relays. So far, I have gotten a stable design that only holds six of these probes. I added heat shields and parachutes to go to Eve. They would've survived long-term if it weren't for the gravity smacking them hard enough on the ground to shatter their solar panels.

Supposing the kessler has enough Dv and torque (for stability) to transfer simplistic relays (just a probe core, solar panels/RTGs, a relay, and possibly a battery just in case)about the Kerbol system would theoretically shave off a large amount of Dv to waste. 

The biggest challenge I find myself encountering is the means to deploy said relays. Some designs have a structural element on top of the 2.5m probe core and the small girders to hold separators. My latest attempt has simplistic designs encased in stacked 2.5m service bays. These have to be much more simplistic and have huge trouble getting out of the bay, often breaking the solar panels, but it's lighter. I'm thinking of deploying an empty mothership with several docking ports and launch several of the small probes to dock with it, but then what's the point of wasting all the time and effort when it can all be in one simple launch?

I've also been trying to find a career-friendly way to incorporate this malicious military and government surveillance device wonderful way to cross together a DSN. Most importantly, I'd like to stay fully stock.

What do you think of the relay kessler?

http://imgur.com/a/82oTg

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Not quite sure what you are trying to achieve here. Would you mind linking the video?

Also: friggin-A, Bill!

[Kerbart]

I assume this Kessler is not the syndrome one but I'd love to learn more about the name.

Use a core of girders and radially attach the probes to those. Release is easy and doesn't require nerve-wrecking building acrobatics either.

[Atubara]

The Relay Kessler got its name because I originally intended for the spacecraft to deploy so many satellites that it almost acted like a kessler bomb, hence the boosters/reaction wheels. There's no video, unfortunately, but I can provide with plenty a picture.

@Kerbart, I'm pretty sure that's what my radial design is already doing, but I might be missing something. I should have made the pictures more clear so you could see the components haha!

My goal is to engineer a low-cost and lightweight vehicle that can scatter obscene numbers of relays. So far, it's been restricted to sandbox mode because there's no technical application to put scientific data on them if a live pilot can record the data and recover it on Kerbin for usually double the value. It's also quite expensive. I guess a valid use for them besides being little buggers that provide signal would be to map distant planets, but unless the game is modded, has no real use over a Kerbal who can do anything without a signal.

http://imgur.com/a/Ki59g

This album contains a better look at my designs.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Are the heat shields for landing, or just aero braking? 

Lose all the individual heat shields. They can aerobrake together, in a fairing or cargo bay.  Then deploy after you come out of the other side of the atmosphere. Your carrying a lot of extra mass to eve that you don't have to. 

Unless they are ground relays. 

Edited December 27, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[Atubara]

It was mostly a test to see if they could make it to the surface of Eve.

The heat shields were necessary to protect the child units from the heat. No aerobraking was needed because my orbit before deorbiting was around 95km circular.

I did try using fairings for each individual relay with RKEE VIII, but they ended up spinning wildly and blowing up.

The complex child units won't fit in a service bay(unless I make a larger version with more thrust to stuff in a fairing, but there's no way a practical relay should be able to take off from Eve)I'll , although I'll try the simple relays in service bays and see how they fare.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

I think I understand now. I did something similar at Duna, but as we both know re-entry heating is a much smaller issue to deal with there. 

Some small seperatrons can slow them down before they reach the hottest parts of the atmosphere, and they are relatively light. 

[Atubara]

There's the problem of where to put it, though. With the booster design, the child unit barely has room to spare with three radial chutes and landing gear along with those solar panels. In fact, the RKEE VII child relays' legs suffered overheating and explosions with the small 1.25m shield. There wouldn't even be room for the chutes if there weren't boosters. Perhaps I would replace the Oscar tanks with a small empty fuselage and a separatron underneath? It would be significantly lighter and it's not like they're going to take off from Eve with the small spark engines anyways.

Or, would it be feasible to have the mothership deploy the relays at set intervals to cover more area on the surface(although if I ever get recording equippment it would be entertaining to watch several probes skitter through Eve's atmosphere at once)? That just gave me a (not so)good idea to deploy paratrooper-like micro rovers. That would be cool.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Atubara

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

I say just keep it simple. If you need them as relays, they would do best in space. But since you want them on the surface...

deorbit them at intervals from a mothership. Get just above atmo and launch those suckers retrograde with seperatrons. Really, if you focus on making the probes themselves as small as possible, and aerodynamically stable, all the other issues are the usual stuff (like how much fuel do you need to get there). 

I have a strong suspicion you can save a lot of mass by simply slowing them before re-entry. I'll test this myself in a few, and show you what I've come up with. 

[DoctorDavinci]

147 satellites from a single launch .... I'll just leave this here:

 

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

All one image:

Spoiler

1- the probe. 8 seperatrons clipped. They deorbit. After the fire is gone, pop the fairing open and deploy chutes. 

2- the mothership with 8 probes. Lots of weight to be saved here, but I just tossed it together. 

3- two radial drogues in action, just after I popped open the fairing. 

4- ready to transmit government secrets. 

 

I call them Bullet Bill(s)   

51 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

147 satellites from a single launch .... I'll just leave this here:

 

Like a boss. Good jams, Doc. 

[Atubara]

The separatrons work like a miracle on Eve! Still having a few problems with the parachutes because I can't switch crafts when in the air, so maybe two or three relays actually make it to the surface unharmed. Firing the small boosters lower in the thermosphere sounds ideal, but they usually don't make it that far before disintegrating.

I spruced up my original relay kessler with the simplified child units and got my number up to 25 relays, 26 if you count the main core. I would add more but the FPS tanks. My computer runs at a smooth 2 FPS while launching it into LKO. I'm trying to find a design that holds up to at least six relays that each have at least 3000 m/s of Dv. The nuclear engines are extremely heavy and taxing on the Dv of the primary rocket that gets them into space. I've gotten a stable design that holds six child relays with 200 m/s Dv, so I may use that to construct a Kerbin system network in science mode.

I haven't found any practical way to use a relay kessler in career mode, especially on hard, but I found that a small relay that can decouple from a main rocket will work for a cheap connection in future missions. It wouldn't be worth the extra effort if you can't afford more than thirty parts or anything more than 20,000 funds, though.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

10 minutes ago, Atubara said:

The separatrons work like a miracle on Eve! 

-snip-

 ...at least 3000 m/s of Dv. ...

Woohoo!

 

5-10 oscar B tanks, or 3-5 toroidal tanks coupled with an "Ant" or "Spark" can yield some serious Dv, and relatively lightweight. Maybe not 3000, but I would give a try. if you don't mind the cost, of course there's IONs. 

 

Why 3000, btw? That's a healthy budget for a probe that is -presumably- only doing station keeping and/or parachute landings. 

[Atubara]

I'm trying to avoid really high-tech stuff like the ions. Really expensive too. if anything, the cheaper and lower tech the better.

I recognise that it's a long shot to get 3000 m/s of Dv on a small craft, but it's just a challenge I'm setting for myself so I can feasibly reach nearly every body in the game with one launch that isn't an SSTO or a miner. And plus, it seems like a really kerbal thing to do. No clue why, it seems like something Jeb would plan in his spare time. 

The boosters could come in handy moving probes for contracts.

The more complex child units I used incorporated three oscar tanks and a spark engine. I might try five tanks and see where that goes, but it's a little bit big to try and fit in a bouquet position. @DrunkenKerbalnaut, you made an genius design that held eight of the simple probes, so I could feasibly hold four of the booster versions that would remain in space.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

You could try a nuke 'tug' that only performs ejection burns for the motherships. It gets the package up to speed, then turns around and grabs the next one and some LF. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

[Atubara]

Would this be something already on the mothership, or might it be dockable? I could probably settle for an upper limit of 500 ms for a child unit (with the oscars and spark engine) if the mothership is refuelable via docking ports, but then that would refute the point of boosters besides moving contracts.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

I meant as a way of transmitting motherships from LKO to Eve (or wherever) on the cheap. If you are sending a transfer stage each time, you are throwing away engines. If the same tug does the transfer, then slows back down to re-orbit in LKO holding pattern, you are only spending fuel. Twice as much, of course. And added complexity and IRL time requirements, but we've all done out math on what's acceptable in that regard. 

Simply send up a couple hundred liters of LF on your Launchpad to LKO mothership lifter. When you do the handoff, the tug takes a swig and proceeds to send the package on it's way. This frees up part count limitations upon mothership arrival, less mass to slow down before entry, etc...