Mun shot questions

[Carl]

Realistically, how much D/V do you need to get from kerbin orbit, to mun orbit, drop into a low Polar, then return to Kerbin?

 

Second, looking at future probabilities and needs. How are docking ports these days, last time i played multi-part spacecraft where nigh usless because the ports where to flexible, is it nay better or are docked components still basically impossible to put under thrust?

[Tex_NL]

Start a sandbox game and just try it. Really, it's not that hard to figure out things like this.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Tex_NL

[Carl]

Oh i've gotten there in the past on prior versions, but for career mode i need to get setup for taking tourists as they're my preferred source of income, thats going to take a big old piece of kit, ye old "take a ridiculous amount of d/v" isn't really an option here. I mean the last one i built back when i last played i entered in a challenge and was told i had enough d/v in it to do i think it was gilly, (it was one of the airless moons outside Kerbin SOI) and back if i wanted. This however is going to have to be managed to within an inch of it's life D/V wise to make work. And building a tourist landers going to be a nightmare, hence my docker question, docked multi-piece reusables is going to be better.

[DD_bwest]

by return to kerbin, do you mean reentry or do you want to return to LKO to transfer data to a science lab?

i think its around 1500m/s to get back to kerbin surface, LKO would be a bunch more.  i generally budget aeound 1800-2000m/s fir my basic mun missions, which plays it safe

[Carl]

Ahh cheers, yeah that 2k figure was roughly what i was looking for, given the inclination changes i think i'll play it safe with 2.5k. That helps a lot :).

[DD_bwest]

Just now, Carl said:

Ahh cheers, yeah that 2k figure was roughly what i was looking for, given the inclination changes i think i'll play it safe with 2.5k. That helps a lot :).

its better to just put yourself straight into polar orbit than to change once there.  thats figuring  800 to get there, and 350 ish for circulizing there, and 350ish for ging home. a 30km pe will get you safly home when leaving the moon

[bewing]

And docking ports generally work a lot better now, unless you put them under large amounts of thrust. You can also autostrut docked things in flight, which usually also helps a bunch.

[Carl]

Quote

And docking ports generally work a lot better now, unless you put them under large amounts of thrust. You can also autostrut docked things in flight, which usually also helps a bunch.

 Like this

Sweet, Not really expecting mega thrusts, but i've got to come up with a way to get a stack consisting of 4 hab cans and a mk 2 pod, plus some SAS to mun surface and back and i figure the lander stage will end up being a reusable to save on the d/v costs of lifting it out of Kerbin atmo every shot, which means docking the engines and whatever arrangement's i make for keeping it stable on mun surface  to the bottom of a common stack hoisted from there KSC to mun orbit. Alternatively i'll have to bus the tourists to a Kerbin orbit space station, then move them to a mun tours craft, take that around, bring it back, and then transfer them back to the bus for de-orbit.

 

Getting the Lander up there in the first place is going to be a copper plated ***** for that matter, somthing that wide even without the stack on top is going to be about as aerodynamic as a brick. The old version of this design built without a tall stack on top and just carrying a 1.25m lander can was a pain to get up because of what it did to the lifter aero and how that made it want to flip all over the place. And thats without figuring otu how i'm gonna build it wide enough with what parts i have unlocked. Bus design is ongoing, but looking good, really need the 2.5m SAS modules, 2.5m command pod, and for preference the 1x6 solar panels, (so getting the panels through reentry without bangs is easy), yet. Subject to that i expect it to work well. 

[DD_bwest]

how many are you looking to land at one time?

[bewing]

Here's my reusable 9-tourist lander, for comparison.

I launch it on top of a stack of 4 kickbacks.

Edited December 31, 2016 by bewing

[Carl]

Whatever my Bus lifts, which will probably be either 4 hab cans and a Mk2 Command pod, or 5 Hab cans and pod, it's going to depend on where bus costs vs paload work out, my current basic orbital tours tourist shot costs just approx 5.9k a tourist per mission and takes 10. I expect some cost growth on my new 2.5m design, but i want to keep it manageable. Current prototype Bus and lifter is about 130k for 4 cans. Need to unlock the 2.5m SAS, Command pod and then see how that changes the numbers about and then decide if i want an extra hab can. Figure about 150-160k all up which makes a 5th cna look attractive since it won't add much to the payload, but will up the profitability.

 

@Bewing: i take it you have to EVA the tourists in? Hoping to avoid that TBH.

 

Got to go out but will try throwing together an example lander when i get home.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Carl

[Spricigo]

2 hours ago, Carl said:

@Bewing: i take it you have to EVA the tourists in? Hoping to avoid that TBH.

Tourists don't EVA. He uses a grab unit to 'dock'  with other ships allowing crew transfer and refueling. 

[Carl]

Yeah but there's no docking on the command pods. Are you saying you can dock anywhere and move the tourists in and out of anywhere else, even if logically they'd need to EVA to do it?

[bewing]

That's right. I use the klaw on the nose to dock anywhere I feel like it, and then use the "Transfer Crew" feature to move the tourists from one ship to another. A klaw is just a docking port that can attach anywhere. You can do the same thing with a pair of docking ports. I pretend that when you have ships docked together, that tourists are allowed to EVA on tethers between docked components. Gives them a little additional thrill and all that.

Edited December 31, 2016 by bewing

[Carl]

Eh, i knew you could send them through fuel tanks and stuff, but didn't think stuff like wings and girders allowed it. That simplifies my lander enormously as i can use hab modules on top of the outriggers as well as one more on the center stack with the pod on top. Biggest issue right now is building the bus, giving me a few issues. Basically my Stability problem saga all over again. needs more SAS but i'm really at the limits of stacking 1.25m modules on. The main "bus itself is light, a mere 20t and 33k credits. With it's Engine stage for mun orbital tours, (when i move to landings this will instead be used to refill the lander), it's a beefy 70 tons, but only 43k credits. But the current full stack is just under 190k credits and some 570 tons. And i need more SAS, it flips as soon as it starts to turn atm. I'm hoping going to 2.5m modules will let me do it without too much bloat, weight and torque wise they look like a solid upgrade, but i fear they'll take me beyond the 200k credit mark. 70 tons is a ***** to lift to orbit.

[Carl]

One extra, whats the highest terrain feature on the mun, going to try to take my orbiter in low later, but not sure how low i can go and not smack somthing.

[DD_bwest]

the highest feature is 7km if i remember right.  15km is certainly safe and provides you more  time to cut your horizontal velocity if your lander is low TWR. unless they added a new mountain that im forgetting lol

[Carl]

Cheers. currently in a 50km orbit, will drop it when i play again.