[0.20] RemoteTech: Relay Network – V 0.5.0.1

[JDP]

Is there any way to get this working with engines?

I want to do an Apollo-style landing

Thank you for your bug report ! Engines should definitely work, but there was a bug where the automation system didn't always activate them. This has now been fixed in V0.32.

(edit) it seems the fix only works if you keep focus on the vessel. After one trip to the tracking station the engine breaks. The easiest fix to the engine breaking issue is to not attach your engine to the decoupler. Either decouple your RC Debris with a radial decoupler or use side mounted engines on your RC Debris.

(edit edit)

Or you can just mount your landing module upside down, i just tried it and it worked beautifully .

I am using v3.1 of this mod, and if I decouple a remotecommand from a ship, after activating my chutes in the staging, they will not open, and remain white in the staging, no matter how many times I press space.

And another thank you. I didn't notice that the way i reactivate staging messed with the staging setup of the mothership. This has now been fixed in 0.32 and it worked when i tested the newest build. But beware, every part in the RemoteControlled vessel gets activated, even chutes, so don't decouple it in an atmosphere, you'll definitely have a bad time.

I haven't done a lot of testing but I put one 'antenna' in orbit then put a crewless craft on the launch pad. The crewless pod had no signal. I was expecting the KSC to provide a signal. I haven't done much testing but is KSC still a ground control? It's entirely possible I've used the wrong parts.

Sadly i don't know of a way of making crewable vehicles controllable when they don't have crew. KSP does some extra checking there to determine if the vessel is controllable. If you used the crewless pod included in this plugin it should definetely have worked. Did you remember to put an antenna on your pod?

KSC is still mission control, and it has an omnidirectional antenna with a signal range of 5000 km.

Remember that you need a Central command processor (RemoteControl, RemoteCommand, RC antenna or RemotePod) to process the relay signal into usable vessel control, and an antenna to actually get the signal. Only the RC antenna is both a Central command processor and an antenna.

Could you perhaps work on a version that removes the signal delay

I've already included a way of reducing signal delay to practically zero. If you make a manned vessel and put whatever antennae you want on it Plus a RemoteCommand module, it will be recognized as another mission control as long as it's manned. So if you for example put that vessel in orbit around Minmus, it would control all rovers it can get in contact with on minmus, in stead of the command signal having to come all the way from Mission Control on Kerbin.

Edited August 8, 2012 by JDP

[JDP]

I seem to be having a problem.

Basically, I'm entirely new to the whole comsat idea, so just to test it out I built a little design with an omnidirectional antenna and put it in orbit. To see if it worked, I added a controllable module to the stage before it, which ends up orbiting pretty much right next to the comsat. I assumed that the newly-made debris would pick up the signal from the comsat it detached and I'd be able to control and deorbit it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The remote-controlled part says something like 'No RC signal' and the actual satellite says the same thing, and neither are controllable.

Here's a pic:

I can see your controllable stage does have a RemoteControl module, but it doesn't look like it has an antenna, if it doesn't have that, it won't be able to get a signal. When you decoupled you removed the only available antenna from your controllable stage and therefore it lost signal.

A RemoteControl module doesn't actually control your ship, it just interprits and implements a control signal from either Mission Control at KSC (which, it seems on the pic, is under the horizon of Kerbin and therefore doesn't have a line of sight to transmit it's control signal through) or a manned vessel with a RemoteCommand module and antennae. RemoteCommand allows a manned vessel to send it's own control signal.

Of course, any vessel that has either a RemoteControl or RemoteCommand module is also a comsat, and they all can relay the command signal to your vessel if they are in range.

For your next mission you could make your controllable stage a manned mk1 pod, add a RemoteCommand module and antennae to that stage. Your controllable debris stage can just have a RemoteControl module and antennae. But remeber to also add a RemoteSAS module, or you won't have attitude control.

There is currently a bug where ASAS (even the ASAS built in to RemoteSAS) won't work on decoupled debris until after you've gone to a far away vessel or the tracking station and then back. But then you should be golden.

[togfox]

Hmm ... my unmanned pod (that's what I meant by crewless - my mistake) did not have an antenna. Which one should I use?

I think a lot of us think this mod is awesome and we really are trying hard to make it work but it is a litte more complicated than what we are use to (in a good way) with the comsat mod. Not trying to come across as fussy and I don't want to make work for you but can you break it down like this:

1) put one or more satelites in orbit that has an antenna (which one?!?!)

2) create an unmanned space craft that can reach orbit. Ensure it has an antenna (which one?!!?)

Done.

Tips:

3) if your network needs a longer range (eg from Kerbin to Minus) then make sure you have the satellite dish attached and it's pointed to Minmus (what does the 'receiving' craft need? An antenan? Which one?)

4) if you want to set up a 'base station' in orbit or on a moon then ensure your craft has the remotecommand module, and crew (is this right?)

...

...

...

Forums are horrible for communication. I'm trying to think of a way to break it down so we have a step by step guide. The OP is good - the parts list is great, but you might be repeating yourself a dozen times without this step by step guide. You can see that I'm not entirely sure how to build a network myself.

Awesome mod! I'll be trying every possible configuration just for fun.

[Subcidal]

I keep getting an error when I try to download.

"Invalid or Deleted File.

The key you provided for file download was invalid. This is usually caused because the file is no longer stored on Mediafire. This occurs when the file is removed by the originating user or Mediafire.

If you believe you have reached this page in error, please submit a ticket.

Click here to view our help resources"

[zuff]

I keep getting an error when I try to download.

"Invalid or Deleted File.

The key you provided for file download was invalid. This is usually caused because the file is no longer stored on Mediafire. This occurs when the file is removed by the originating user or Mediafire.

If you believe you have reached this page in error, please submit a ticket.

Click here to view our help resources"

File seems to be gone Anyone have a mirror or was it pulled for a reason?

[JDP]

...it is a litte more complicated than what we are use to (in a good way) with the comsat mod...

Thanks for the input. Admittedly my plugin is a bit more complicated than SRN, and as said before i don't want it to be a successor or competitor. If people end out wanting a more simple Relay network mod, i would wholeheartedly, and without any bad fealings, invite them to use The_Duck's awesome plugin.

Seing as i'm the guy who made it, of course it makes sense to me how to use it, and it can be a bit hard for me to decide which parts are hard to understand for others and which aren't . I'm working on a step by step guide right now.

I keep getting an error when I try to download.

Yeah sorry about that. I think my latest upload was attacked by the mighty space kraken. It should be working again now.

[togfox]

So far I've determined that a relay satelite (not meant to be controlled) needs the remote pod part and an antenna. When you do that, not only is it controlled by the network but also becomes a part of the network, in other words, it can be controlled by the network and also relay the signal onto other remote pods that also have antenna's. I got that right?

[JDP]

So far I've determined that a relay satelite (not meant to be controlled) needs the remote pod part and an antenna. When you do that, not only is it controlled by the network but also becomes a part of the network, in other words, it can be controlled by the network and also relay the signal onto other remote pods that also have antenna's. I got that right?

More or less.

In my design anything that can be RemoteControlled can also relay the control signal to other vessels. A big difference between this plugin and SRN is that you need to have both a part to recieve/send the signal (an antenna) and a part to process the signal (For example the remote pod, but a RemoteControl module will do the same, even if put on a manned vessel)

The simplest RemoteControlled vessel, and the one i've used a lot in testing, is the RemotePod on a Cart with a single omnidirectional antenna on top and a couple of satellite dishes strapped to the side. This vessel will get it's control signal directly from Mission control via the attached omnidirectional antenna, it can also relay that signal via the satellite dishes to other vessels.

You can test the behavior of satellite dishes by driving your small cart a couple of meters away and then launching a new cart, this time with the omnidirectional antenna removed.

Your new cart won't have any signal at first, because Mission Control only has an omnidirectional antenna and the satellite dishes on your first cart aren't pointed at your second.

You don't have a signal connection to the network so you can't access other vessels in the settings menu (just try clicking on them in the "list comsats" submenu). So you have to switch focus to your first cart and direct one of it's satellite dishes at your second cart (this is done by clicking on the top button in the Comms status menu).

Now you can switch focus back to your second cart and do the same. Point one of it's dishes at your first cart an voila, you have a signal connection to Mission Control via your first Cart.

[Leon_Brooks]

I use this mod to control jettisoned stages, that still have fuel, into sub-orbital trajectories. Thanks to this I have no more "big" debris.

I also put a 'orbital mission control' in orbit above Minmus(manned by Jeb, himself) to control multiple remote controlled rovers on the surface. When I want to have some fun I'll turn of the connection to the orbital command station and use the relay system I set up for some delayed control driving, as minor as it may be. When the new planets are released this mod make role-playing missions so much more fun.

Keep it up, JDP.

[JDP]

Staying home sick and soothing my aches with some KSP fun i just created the Satellite Deploy Vehicle:

This baby will put 3 sattelites in orbit, and the central part is equipped with both a RemoteCommand and omnidirectional antennae, so it can supply a control signal to the decoupled satellites even when KSC is below the horizon. It's designet so the outer boosters will always fall back to Kerbin, and thus creates no debris.

Since a relay network needs at least 3 satellites in orbit, in order to always have line of sight to KSC, this vehicle can with one mission create an entire workable relay network.

I already put one constellation 1000 km above Kerbin. In the mission on the pic, i went for a deep space relay network at an altitude of 6000 km. At that height i really needed the 8 satellite dishes strapped to each sattelite, since KSC only has an omnidirectional antenna with a range of 5000 km.

I've since sent the SDV to the Mun and created a Munar relay network. Now it's off to start operation: "put a RemoteControlled rover on the dark side of the Mun" .

Ahh it's fun finally being able to play with this thing

[Subcidal]

How would you go about making other pods use this? I want to get the probebodobo kit's pods to be remote controlled pods, But I cant figure it out. I've tried setting their module as RemoteControlPod, RemoteTech and RemoteControl (Yes I added the config settings too) and they just don't show up in the selection screen as commands pods, Or they do show up but without the relay window, just as normal manned pods. With the ducks you needed to rename them ARCommandpod or something like that, Seems to be a bit more complex with this one.

Edit: And I figured it out.... Pretty sure it was the lack of the internal settings that was causing the error. RemotePod works as the module.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Subcidal

[royying]

I was unable to RC the cart

I should replace the cart source file or put "Modified Cart source" folder and "Cart" folder together?

[BustedEarLobes]

Very good and awesome. I think Squad should contact you to add it to vanilla! Keep up the good work!

[rkman]

I was unable to RC the cart

I should replace the cart source file or put "Modified Cart source" folder and "Cart" folder together?

You don't need the source files, you need to put "cart.dll" in the Plugins folder.

[maxpanic]

This mod is awesome. Thanks a lot!

[rkman]

JDP you get bonus points for disallowing local control of unmanned craft, even when out of radio contact.

That'll teach me to more carefully plan my missions.

edit: the image is much smaller than i wanted; periapsis is at 19km and the craft is out of radio contact. it won't get into range before it hits the atmosphere.

Edited August 9, 2012 by rkman

[Leon_Brooks]

My system had become too cluttered so I started over. First things first, relay system. followed by rover on mun... and here we are. The directional comsat is pointing at the ground but it was the only place I could mount it.

http://imgur.com/a/CwEk9#0

This rover is considered "manned" so it has the option of local control but I did not use it, despite it being on in the pics( turns on automatically when loading from space center). Total relay delay is .11 sec so its pretty much instant response anyway.*I could have cut three satts out of that relay and I know the satts around the Mun are not in position( nevermind that there are not enough of them to maintain constant contact with surface vessels) but I would direct you to my Sig.. plus I like that black-out period for roleplaying and what not.

Next rover goes to Minmus( i already have a manned orbital command station in position(polar orbit at 350x350k) then the manned flight start. Too much fun.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Leon_Brooks
Pics were HUGE and took up the whole dang page :P

[royying]

Manned Remote Command Craft can't open the relay setting page if lose contact with KSC signal

I think it will be better if the command craft can open the relay setting page of craft that within range

[Kasterfin]

This looks very impressive - it will be perfect for adding onto my ion-drive powered spacecraft to provide an easy descent

[randomusername1]

In the next version do you think you could make MechJeb finish whatever it's doing if you lose signal for the craft?

[maro]

Hello

First i want to say that i like this plugin very much

Its another step for a more realistic KSP system.

I would like to make some suggestions to it.

A real ComSat is a very heavy and bulky part - for example the ARTRA 1M weights more then 5 metric tonnes.

With your parts right now one can make fare more lighter as also much more powerful Comsats right now.

Today i put up a Monster with 9 dishes powered with an ion-engine from the Mechanical Mouse Industries Satellite Pack - and its total weight for that much com power is....negligible.

I would suggest there should be one processor core for supporting each antenna on the craft weighting at least 1t each (lighter for the omni-antenna and much lighter for the RC), because the antenna for its one is no radio system.

And the second suggestion is - i would like to see a less bulky omnidirectional antenna. The Probodobodyne right now looks ugly on each craft. A extendable type of antenna would be nice if possible to integrate.

[rkman]

...rover on mun... and here we are. The directional comsat is pointing at the ground but it was the only place I could mount it.

http://imgur.com/a/CwEk9#0

Gives a whole new meaning to Moon Bouncing.

[BustedEarLobes]

If I may recommend, IRL there's about a 1-4 second delay of signal delay from the earth to the moon. I know that, because Kerbin is to the scale of 1:11, your delay is accurate. However, I think it is a little unbalanced. I think that, instead of using real life speed of radio waves, you should also bring down that speed to 1:11. That way, the delay will be more realistic. Keep up the amazing work! This is the only mod I use (Which is saying something because I don't like using mods).

[Lifeforce87]

Hi together,, how do you guys link the dishes to each other? It it possible with mechjeb? Because i never get a signal *g*

Awesome mod btw!

[JDP]

JDP you get bonus points for disallowing remote control of unmanned craft, even when out of radio contact...

Well, that's just one of the inherent dangers in unmanned spaceflight. If you aren't able to establish a connection to your vessel, you're pretty much out of luck .

...I think it will be better if the command craft can open the relay setting page of craft that within range

I was thinking about just that when I wrote the settings menu. But I gathered that it would create too much lag for people with slower computers. I also didn't want it to be possible to edit every vessel in the network even when you're not in contact with the network. So I chose this solution as a half-way solution.

However, since release, I've had a couple of ideas of how to do more realistic calculations on which Vessels are within 'editing' range without it being too CPU intensive. I'll look into implementing those in the next update.

In the next version do you think you could make MechJeb finish whatever it's doing if you lose signal for the craft?

That would indeed be an awesome addition. When planets get added to KSP and we have far longer delays MechJeb could be an excellent autopilot to execute all the maneuvers that are not possible to do manually over the relay network. But doing this would take some measure of cooperation between myself and r4m0n I think. And I need to be 'done' with a lot of the core functions of this plugin before I start adding in interfaces to other plugins. So I'm afraid you shouldn't expect MechJeb integration too soon.

...I would like to make some suggestions to it...

As most of you have probably noticed, my skills in part modeling amount to exactly zero . If it weren't for Tosh actually going out of his way and making the RC Antenna, this plugin would have no custom parts at all. Everything else is just my own semi-ugly reskins of stock parts and rescaled parts from probodyne (again graciously donated by NovaSilisko).

I intended the standard antenna to be that big in order to visually distinguish it from the small short-range RC Antenna. But I would wholeheartedly welcome additional parts to bundle with this plugin.

Regarding your Idea to add in dedicated signal processors to the individual antennae. I think that might make the plugin a bit too complicated to use. I'm already going right to the limit of how complicated a fun game should be IMHO.

I intended the RemoteTech parts to be lighter compared to the manned ones. This way there is a measure of motivation to mount unmanned, contra, manned missions. And also it adds a measure of realism. A manned mission should have more mass than an umnanned one. Of course, if you combine my plugin with something like Zoxygene and balance tha mass (and energy requirenment) of the individual parts, you would have the same effect, just with way more realism in life-support.

For sure my parts could use some balancing in the mass department, if you're up to the task, you are very welcome to look into the config files and editing them a bit. If it all measures up, ill use your modified config files in the next update.