Land on Laythe and get back to Kerbin KSC with a stock rocket.

[antbin]

So I'm going to have a 3rd try at this.

... while still packing ASAS, chutes, and legit adapters, that is. It weighs 10.9 tons and has 2570 dV (despite what Engineer says). 2048dV is supposed to be the minimum required, but that leaves no margin for botched inclination, nevermind anything else.

Now to assemble this into a lander.

Edited October 4, 2012 by antbin

[The Destroyer]

So I'm going to have a 3rd try at this.

... while still packing ASAS and chutes that is. It weighs 10.9 tons and has 2500 Delta-V according to Engineer. 2048dV is supposed to be the minimum required, but that leaves no margin for botched inclination, nevermind anything else.

Now to assemble this into a lander.

Your spoiler is non-working

[antbin]

Oops, fixed it - spoiler quotes don't like apostrophes. Even correctly used one's.

Also, it turns out 2 fuel lines are about the same weight as an empty small 1m tank. Also I might as well cut the part numbers down.

Only 40ish deltaV less.

[lucidLemon]

antbin, if you remove the adapter, put the small decoupler between the ASAS and Command Pod, and replace the XL parachute with the smaller one, it gets a delta-V of 2618 and can still touchdown safely.

[antbin]

if you remove the adapter, put the small decoupler between the ASAS and Command Pod, and replace the XL parachute with the smaller one, it gets a delta-V of 2618 and can still touchdown safely.

Ah, the small parachute is enough to safely land the 3-kerb pod? I will swap that out. I have also since hid a parachute under the fuel tanks/NERVA to try and soft-land the nuclear engine.

As far as deleting frills (adapter, etc), I agree, and it would lower the center of gravity too... but I'm listening to the people that like their rockets to look good (look at comments #1 and 2 here)

With this lighter return stage, I've got the lander fuel down to 4800L, weight down ~10% to 42 tons, part count down significantly too.

[etchasketch]

I wondered if it was possible to do this Kerbin -> Laythe -> Kerbin mission with a space plane.

Then I stopped wondering and gave it a go:

http://imgur.com/a/ruEqQ#0

My conclusion is, yes, it probably is quite possible to glide a space plane down onto Laythe, power up the engines and fly all the way back home.

However, you need to find an extremely flat piece of land, and probably touch down with parachutes.

I never touched down, but I had enough of fuel for a flyby of some previous stranded missions. I hope one day they allow us to teraform the moons and add runways.

I had some luck on the way home with some lucky moon slingshots. It's painful lugging heavy engines around space, and fuel is hard to conserve.

[antbin]

My conclusion is, yes, it probably is quite possible to glide a space plane down onto Laythe, power up the engines and fly all the way back home.

However, you need to find an extremely flat piece of land, and probably touch down with parachutes.

Wow, nicely done! Getting a 1600L tank and a NERVA to fly in Laythe atmosphere must have been quite the challenge. And you were very patient and determined on the way back (two Kerbin passes?). Awesome!

[r_rolo1]

Hum, etchasketch imgur album got me thinking ... maybe a water landing plane could work a landing? That , if possible , would be the best idea given how hard is to find flat land in Laythe and with so much water :/

[etchasketch]

Wow, nicely done! Getting a 1600L tank and a NERVA to fly in Laythe atmosphere must have been quite the challenge. And you were very patient and determined on the way back (two Kerbin passes?). Awesome!

Yes, 1600L doesn't so much fly, as fall with style. Any large angle of attack sends it into a death spin.

The NERVA hangs all the weight off the back, and once you've expended the jet and aerospike fuel you have to move all that dead weight around.

On the plus side, it is capable of taking off from KSC without destroying the engines.

[etchasketch]

Hum, etchasketch imgur album got me thinking ... maybe a water landing plane could work a landing? That , if possible , would be the best idea given how hard is to find flat land in Laythe and with so much water :/

Hmm, some kind of detatchable pontoons? Is that possible without mods? Isn't is handy having a big expanse of water right outside KSC...

[fleckenzwerg]

I did this some days ago, stock parts only, no plugins, less knowledge about good rocket design than today. Due to a near-fatal design flaw, it was even more fun than expected: http://imgur.com/a/LIbwf#0

And here's the accompanying reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/10ynjn/to_the_surface_of_laythe_and_back_again_with_only/

[r_rolo1]

Hmm, some kind of detatchable pontoons? Is that possible without mods? Isn't is handy having a big expanse of water right outside KSC...

Say, using Mk1 fuselages as floating devices, like in here .

[antbin]

Revised my lander design to shave some parts / weight - it's down to 181 parts (incl. 16 debris-clearing separatrons, and 5 ornamental nosecones), and the weight is still ~550 tons on the pad.

Anyhow, now that landing / returning from Laythe is doable, I agree that a Laythe transport plane is needed! One of my landers is on the North Pole (fantastic view!) and it would be nice to be able to vacation on the equator. Also I don't think the lander has enough delta-V to make orbit from the north pole.

P.S. The north pole is probably the flattest part of Laythe... good for landing if it wasn't for the pain of re-orbiting.

Edited October 11, 2012 by antbin

[antbin]

Say, using Mk1 fuselages as floating devices, like in here .

I tried this today, problem was that I still needed parachutes to land it. No way I could glide in to a landing, while structural fuselages are strong the drag still flipped the boat head over heels.

Another option is to land vertically, so the speeds are slower. Keeping the nose pointed up is the tricky part.

[ginsweater]

After many, MANY failed attempts, and with, I confess, a considerable amount of savescumming, I MADE IT!!

I used a spaceplane that dropped off its wings just before achieving Laythe orbit, becoming a more-or-less standard "one tank return pod." That way I could return about 1700 m/s of delta-V to Laythe orbit without needing a huge heavy spaceplane. I scouted a flat surface near the equator:

and after MANY attempts, I managed to land.

As a bonus, the landing site was near a lake, so I drove over (thankful for my past Mun rover experience) and Jeb took a dip.

The full album: http://imgur.com/a/8rN6i#0

This isn't a claim to have accomplished the challenge as I used Kerbal Engineer Redux (actually my own customized version of the 0.2 release - I added inflight delta-v, mass, and planetary angles myself) both to design the ship and for information display during flight. No automation - it's all hand flown (using an X360 controller for the tricky parts) - and it doesn't affect the flight properties of the ship, but it means the rocket has one non-stock part.

On the other hand, the design uses no nukes and no aerospikes! So I can still claim personal triumph.

Craft files attached (with the nonstandard Engineer part removed so they're all stock) if anyone wants to try them. The "trainer" is just the spaceplane by itself - I practiced flying and landing it on Kerbin before taking it all the way to Laythe.

Pad weight is 433.71 tons (244 parts); the spaceplane stage is 23.2 tons; the Kerbin return stage is 7.1 tons and (in this mission) achieved Laythe orbit weighing 6.36 tons.

Edited October 13, 2012 by ginsweater
Forgot to attach the craft files!

[antbin]

Nice, Ginsweater! Love the spaceplane with the detachable jet engines AND wings! Very nice.

[etchasketch]

After many, MANY failed attempts, and with, I confess, a considerable amount of savescumming, I MADE IT!!

Ah, getting to your destination and realising you've missed something crucial, like landing gear. I know that problem.

It happens to me because I'm too eager to test out an early prototype and accidentally test it too far.

"I'll see if this makes orbit. Yep. Wonder if it can get to Jool. Wow, it can. I bet I can't land on Laythe. Huh, coming in for landing. Deploy gear, and... oh, no gear."

Well done on the mission.

[ginsweater]

Ah, getting to your destination and realising you've missed something crucial, like landing gear. I know that problem.

Yup. I think it's because a rocket without gear or ladders doesn't look wrong - unlike a rocket without, say, engines.

And so I end up flying lots of "Apollo 10" missions - get there, get within a few hundred meters of the surface, then say "never mind" and go home for more parts.

[Anglave]

I undertook a multi-part mission to Laythe. Stock .19.1. All manually piloted.

The first craft is the science station, lander, and the return section. craft file.

The second craft is two major interplanetary stages, designed to push the mission to Laythe. craft file

They dock in LKO, then push outward to Jool.

and aerobrake together at Laythe

At their new Laythe apoapsis, they un-dock, and the IP stage (Starlance) makes a small prograde burn, taking up a communications relay orbit,

while the lander section makes a second aerobrake pass, descending to a landing trajectory.

After landing, the crew descends to the Hitchhiker science lab, which will remain on the surface.

The crew does Science! until their return launch window. Then they climb back into the control capsule and ascend to LLO.

The science station remains on the surface of Laythe, in communication with the orbiting interplanetary drive section, which acts as a relay to Kerbin.

After attaining Laythe orbit, it's a simple matter of plotting a Kerbin intercept and waiting for the long fall back home.

The complete photo album is here.

[Atanar]

I see people descending on Laythe with some packed parachutes...

I just want to say that kerbals cannot only repair rover weels, but they can also repack parachutes if they are close enough. That might be helpful fur a Laythe-and-return trip.

[Anglave]

I see people descending on Laythe with some packed parachutes...

I just want to say that kerbals cannot only repair rover weels, but they can also repack parachutes if they are close enough. That might be helpful fur a Laythe-and-return trip.

Thanks! It would definitely help to have access to the center nose chute when descending on Laythe.

[tavert]

Cool rockets Anglave, nicely done! You do realize this is a 7-month-old thread though, right?