KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[cantab]

Personally I'm wary of "open box"/returned stuff. My thinking is it was returned for a reason, and maybe there's a fault and the seller is hoping to fob it off on someone else anyway.

Second-hand doesn't concern me so much; it's used, but I feel it's reasonably likely it wasn't sold because of a fault. I've had a fair few pieces of second hand hardware and not had problems with it.

[Slam_Jones]

Hello again PC Building thread!  I've started looking for things that work in a 5.25" bay, as I have 3 open.  After looking at a list of possibilities (link for those that are interested) I've got my eye on a few different ones.

One thing I'd like is something like this (STW 6049 5.25 Drive Bay Ventilation Fan Control Panel Temperature) or like this (STW 5.25 Inch All-in-1 Card Reader with 2 Fan Controller &2 Usb3.0 Port LCD Display Screen Support Ms/ms/tf/sd/mmc/cf/md/xd Card Reader for Pc).  Basically it has a little display to tell you internal PC temps and some extra ports.  I don't care as much about the extra ports, but I do like the idea of having a display for temps.  Problem is, most of the ones I've looked at are from China (not necessarily a bad thing on it's own) and very very few have any reviews at all.  I tend to rely a lot on reviews for honest opinions.

So my question is: are there other options similar to those listed above that people have explored?  Are there any good manufacturers, or any products with a decent number of reviews?  Sure they're generally cheap ($30 or so) but I don't wanna buy DOA stuff that won't get RMA'd.

Edit: I also like the drawer options, but I can make one myself if I really want one.

 

TL;DR:  What are some cool things I can put in my extra 5.25" drive bays?  I have 3 open, and don't need more DVD drives or HDD bays (I have two out of five open still).

Edited December 9, 2015 by Slam_Jones

[Alphasus]

You can do speakers:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836150072

You can also do a multimedia system or hard drive fans, or extra USB slots.http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g34/Bay_Devices.html

[Camacha]

On 09/12/2015, 13:01:21, riocrokite said:

I don't know whether you guys suggested it before - buying used or not-used unpacked hardware with the receipt;

I've saved quite a lot of money buying unpacked-not used or slightly used hardware a year ago:

This can be an excellent way of saving a lot of money. You really have to pick up the interesting parts from the right people. Great buys can come from people that bought a toy and played only a few times with it (like driving wheels of drawing tablet peripherals), enthusiasts that bought a set of hardware and change stuff (often hard drives, power supplies and such) or have received a new part under warranty, but already bought another one because it took too long. Generally, if you buy from someone with a bit of computing knowledge (like found on computer websites), you should be good. Those people are realistic about prices (not the I paid 1000 bucks for this 5 years ago so 800 dollar is the minimum kind of guys) and know how to  handle hardware appropriately. Even if things go awry every now and then, you should be able to save a lot of money and you get to meet a generally nice bunch of people to boot.

Especially buying a factory sealed part that comes with warranty for half of the current shop price is a great feeling

 

On 09/12/2015, 15:23:44, cantab said:

Personally I'm wary of "open box"/returned stuff. My thinking is it was returned for a reason, and maybe there's a fault and the seller is hoping to fob it off on someone else anyway.

It really depends on where you live. In some areas consumer protection laws are quite extensive, so people can test and return hardware if they do not like it for some reason. It is illegal to resell this as new, so good deals can be had on hardware that literally was just turned on once or twice. You should be able to get proper warranty too, so if you get burned, you can still return it.

Again, it really depends on your local laws. Be sure to read up on local consumer rights and laws.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Camacha

[briansun1]

Speaking of used part's what do you guys do with them?

[Red Iron Crown]

15 minutes ago, briansun1 said:

Speaking of used part's what do you guys do with them?

I tend to keep my PCs long enough that they're fairly obsolete by the time I retire them, if I know someone who just needs a web/email machine I'll give it away, otherwise it's donate/recycle.

[DuoDex]

9 minutes ago, briansun1 said:

Speaking of used part's what do you guys do with them?

Don't touch them, personally. I had a 280x I sold for half the new price, and I gave away a 9602GB to my cousin who was building a PC of their own. In my experience, it is really easy to get scammed when buying used parts, and I wouldn't rely on them even if they do work.

That said, if I can get a GTX 980Ti for under four hundred dollars, I certainly would take it.

[briansun1]

Sounds about the same as what I'm doing right now. I have a rather old PC that's missing a PSU and a HDD. I also have a 7870 just laying around after I got a new GPu.

[scribbleheli]

I have been trying to find a GTX 980 and Core i7 6700k for under 400$ each to finish my new build. Trying to get KSP 1.1 and Oculus Rift ready.

I will likely give everything I don't use from my Current PC to my friend so we can play Arma 3. Which is an i7 920, Asus Rampage II extreme Mobo, and some  G.skill 8Gb ram.

Unless someone here would like to make me an offer for it? 

I have a ATI 5770? sitting at home in a box that I wouldnt bother trying to sell. It just occrued to me that I can put it in my GPU-less work computer so I can actually watch Youtube at 1080p

[Red Iron Crown]

35 minutes ago, scribbleheli said:

Unless someone here would like to make me an offer for it? 

Probably not a good idea to get into buying/selling here on the forum, there's inherent risk in online private transactions and we don't have any sort of dispute resolution process in case things go awry. A bunch of tech sites have classifieds sections of their forums, arstechnica and anandtech being good examples, might be better to try there.

[John FX]

I recently found an auction site that (amongst other things) sells refurbished computer equipment.

Just bought 3x24" HD samsung monitors and 2x lenova computers (2GB RAM, core 2 [email protected], 320GB HD) and a very old monitor all for £165. Will probably use the two machines as servers (with a little extra RAM and a SATA 3 card)

Now I just need a couple of graphics cards for my main machine and I will go triple display =)

Currently bidding on an unopened copy of Elite:Dangerous, bidding seems to have stopped at £10.

Very happy as I also got a DJI Phantom 2 Vision+ drone for £250 (RRP £1199)

 

By the way, Red Iron Crown, I like your new spinny avatar

[AC656]

Hello everyone, I am looking to buy a new all purpose laptop. I know laptops are not ideal to play games but other aspects of my life require that I have one. Probably the most demanding process I run at the moment is KSP which is why I ask here for help.

For portability, screen size, performance, and other reasons I have landed to 2 final options:

 

1. Dell XPS 15 9550:

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700HQ (Quad Core 2.6GHz, 3.5 GHz Turbo, 6MB, 45W)

GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M with 2GB GDDR5

 

2. Dell Inspiron 5510: 

CPU: Option A: Intel Core Xeon E3-1505M v5 (Quad Core 2.80GHz, 3.70GHz Turbo, 8MB 45W)

          Option B: Intel Core i7-6820HQ (Quad Core 2.70GHz, 3.60GHz Turbo, 8MB 45W)

GPU: Nvidia Quadro M1000M w/2GB GDDR5

 

The Inspiron has the option of 3 different processors the other is an i3 thought which I will probably not pick. Both will have the same amount of memory (16 GB) and the rest of the specs seem to be irrelevant for this comparison (but I may be wrong and could look them up and add them if requested).

 

I think I understand the main differences here one has better CPU (Inspiron) the other better GPU (XPS) what I don't know is how this relates to running different processes (in particular KSP). I've also heard that cpu, not gpu, is usually the limiting factor in KSP but it seems like when comparing computers each case is different and maybe a 0.2GHz difference is not that important considering the difference in gpu and/or price (I really don't have an appreciation of what 0.2GHz mean in terms of what it feels like to run a certain application).

I guess the main question is in this particular case which one of these would you guys recommend?.

 

Links in case anyone wants to check out extra information (some of the links may point towards different configurations of the model, but the specs above are the best for each, and probably what I would go for):

Dell XPS 15 9550:

http://www.dell.com/ca/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd?oc=nxps15550_bt_h1630pe&model_id=xps-15-9550-laptop

 

Dell Inspiron 5510:

http://www.dell.com/ca/business/p/precision-m5510-workstation/pd?oc=xctop551015usca

 

intel.com Xeon Processor:

http://ark.intel.com/products/89608/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1505M-v5-8M-Cache-2_80-GHz

 

intel.com i7-6700HQ processor:

http://ark.intel.com/products/88967/Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

[MircoMars]

On 9.12.2015, 02:34:19, cantab said:

So I've started having a problem with my new(ish) build: I'm getting an intermittent obnoxious hum. It's not super loud but it's a noticeable pitch, not like the normal fan hiss. It doesn't seem to clearly link to either CPU or GPU load.

I suspected the power supply, since it''s in a semi-passive that turns the fan off outright when it doesn't think it needed. But I haven't been able to consistently link the hum to when that fan is running, though I haven't investigated enough to be sure yet I don't think.

Any other suggestions for things I could look at?

how comfy are you with touching parts of your running system? That's how I find noisy parts. most often it's a tiny vibration, that loosens screws and get's worse over time. touching the component can dampen this vibration. sometimes you need to tighten the screws or put in some dampening washers.

fans can be checked by slowing them down (software/bios) or unplugging them (power off for that!). HDD that are suspiciously noisy outside the case should be checked for internal mechanical errors (e.g. CrystalDiskInfo). 

ahh, I just remember, are you sure it's not a loudspeaker? I had random stuff coming over my beeper in a old system. and now I have interference from my graphics to my soundchip, which is really annoying.

Last resort for me was always a complete troubleshoot: disassemble everything, put 3 parts together, start, listen, recombine parts, listen... mostly I don't find anything wrong and after reassembly everything works fine...

[Camacha]

On 11/12/2015, 14:10:31, briansun1 said:

Speaking of used part's what do you guys do with them?

Testing/server/backup. Selling them would yield not a huge amount of money, while the parts are still pretty decent performance wise.

 

54 minutes ago, MircoMars said:

how comfy are you with touching parts of your running system?

Be careful. You would not be the first guy zapping himself or parts of the system while doing that. As a rule of thumb, do not work on running systems. Things can go awry faster than you think, as it is generally that one thing you did not take into account that gets you.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Camacha

[Alphasus]

So, I have a bit of a problem with graphics cards. Is the entry level price of a GTX 970 too high to justify buying it, even though over time I spend less? A 970 allows me to do 1440p every once in a while, while its new. I am comparing the 750 TI, 960 2GB, 960 4GB, and the 970.

[MircoMars]

1 hour ago, Camacha said:

Be careful. You would not be the first guy zapping himself or parts of the system while doing that. As a rule of thumb, do not work on running systems.

You're right with the first part, I should have added a disclaimer and some ground rules like:

opening the case and fiddling inside can void your warranty and may harm you or your hardware. If you don't know how the different basic electronic components (i.e. resistors, capacitators, ICs, diodes etc.) look, don't touch anything! don't touch any moving part! beware of hot parts, check carefully! if possible, use a non-static insulating glove, electric-insulation, not temperature-insulation. if you don't have this option use some plastic (sharpie or so) to check for vibrations. if this is not an option only touch clearly insulated parts or grounded case-/structural parts. Don't un- or replug anything while system is running, for matter of clarity, not even USB (actually this should be fine but just to be sure). never ever, sorry, NEVER EVER TOUCH ANY CAPACITOR!!! not while running, not for an hour after power down. Don't short-circuit anything, therefore don't use any conducting material to touch stuff (e.g. metal, pencil lead, skin...)....

this list could go on for pages, but I'm neither willing nor able to write a "complete idiot's guide" (hm, rather "Complete idiot's guide", "complete Idiot's guide" or "complete idiot's Guide"??), so yeah: be careful, know what your doing or learn about that stuff, use common sense (anyway), think before doing something, rather be save (consult repair service) than sorry (get new computer or pacemaker). 

If you don't have anything to add to the above list, DON'T OPEN THE CASE!

In the end I still think some hardware problems can only be figured out (or at least faster) by checking a running system. but yeah again, be careful.

Edited December 13, 2015 by MircoMars
some punctuation and clarification

[Elthy]

18 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

So, I have a bit of a problem with graphics cards. Is the entry level price of a GTX 970 too high to justify buying it, even though over time I spend less? A 970 allows me to do 1440p every once in a while, while its new. I am comparing the 750 TI, 960 2GB, 960 4GB, and the 970.

If you want to play in 1440p you should consider the R9 390 instead of the GTX 970. The 3,5GB VRAM of the GTX 970 will limit you shortly, also AMD cards tend to do better than their Nvidia counterparts the higher the resolution gets.

[Alphasus]

10 minutes ago, Elthy said:

If you want to play in 1440p you should consider the R9 390 instead of the GTX 970. The 3,5GB VRAM of the GTX 970 will limit you shortly, also AMD cards tend to do better than their Nvidia counterparts the higher the resolution gets.

Ok, the TDP of an r9 390 is going to be horrible for my small case, unfortunately. Also, 1440p is only when I can, and not really expected at all. Does the r9 380x seem reasonable?

[Elthy]

If TDP is an issue, Nvidia cards are better for you since they are more efficient (in most cases) than AMD cards. But AMD has other advantages...

For Full-HD there are 3 cards worth considering: The R9 380X, the R9 380 (4G) and the GTX 960 (4G).
All cards have 4 GB, while this isnt 100% necessary at the moment i strongly recommend it when you plan to use the card for 2 years or more. The VRAM demand of games is rising fast due to the new consoles, which have way more space for nice textures than the old generation.

The 380X is the strongest one of the three, its about 12% faster than the 380, which is 5% faster than the 960. The question for you is how expensive those cards are where you live. E.g. here in germany the 380 is as expensive as the 960, which makes it the better choice. The upgrade to the 380X could be worth it if its not to exnethersve compared to the others.

[cantab]

3 hours ago, MircoMars said:

how comfy are you with touching parts of your running system? That's how I find noisy parts. most often it's a tiny vibration, that loosens screws and get's worse over time. touching the component can dampen this vibration. sometimes you need to tighten the screws or put in some dampening washers.

Funnily enough, this actually seems to be relevant - but the only part I needed to touch was the case. The "bottom" side panel (the one next to the motherboard) seems like it might be vibrating. Not surprising with a fairly basic and lightweight case I suppose. I'll have to look into any ways to damp it.

[MircoMars]

 

1 hour ago, cantab said:

Funnily enough,

Hah, I knew it!

1 hour ago, cantab said:

I'll have to look into any ways to damp it.

if you don't want to go the "official" casemodder's way, you can improvise with rubber bands, window insulation tape and the occasional drop of superglue. helped me a lot, I once even suspended my HDDs ...

[Camacha]

9 hours ago, MircoMars said:

so yeah: be careful, know what your doing or learn about that stuff, use common sense (anyway), think before doing something, rather be save (consult repair service) than sorry (get new computer or pacemaker).

Long story short, even if you know what you are doing and are careful you can get caught out and fry something. Most of the time that will be hardware, but poking around in a live machine will bite you sooner or later. If you accept that and know how to make killing yourself unlikely, go ahead

 

8 hours ago, Elthy said:

If TDP is an issue, Nvidia cards are better for you since they are more efficient (in most cases) than AMD cards. But AMD has other advantages...

TDP is never the issue, power consumption is. That is more than semantics, since the power consumption on some cards does not line up with the TDP at all. Some are way over, some are way short. For that reason it is important to always check out the actually measured power consumption. Reviews are again your friend.

That being said, if you need to make a different choice of GPU brand based on the room you have to spare on your PSU, you definitely need to upgrade your PSU. The differences involved are small enough that you can get caught out by something else if those make a difference. Maybe your PSU is a little older, or a less quality one. Maybe your power company does not provide the most stable input power, someone else in the neighbourhood is messing the signal up, or your in house system or appliances are not really up to scratch.

Those couple of watts difference between brands is going to matter a lot less than other factors.

[Alphasus]

It's not a couple of watts at all though. The AMD GPUs output more heat by far, that is what TDP measures. https://pcpartpicker.com/forums/topic/107555-for-people-that-are-debating-between-r9-390-and-gtx-970-read-this

I have a rather small microATX case, that I would prefer to not get very warm. Also, let's face it, 275 watts(r9 390 or 390x) is almost double the 145 watts that the 970 puts out in heat. Finally, it does have about 100 more watts of power usage, which would stretch my 550W PSU past max efficiency range.http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Sapphire-Nitro-Radeon-R9-390-8GB-Review/3DMark-Power-and-Conclusions

[Elthy]

Never thought about using TDP as its meant to be used, of course i was talking about power consumption.

Almost no GTX 970 runs on stock speed, most are overclocked quite a bit which raises their power consumption way more than their performance. Anyway, a 970 or 390 is overkill for Full-HD.

[Camacha]

44 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

The AMD GPUs output more heat by far, that is what TDP measures.

Not really. TDP is, and always has been, a guesstimation. This can best be seen in different processors with different power consumption getting the exact same TDP. It is all about engineers grouping their hardware together in nice, coarse groups, which is very useful when you have to put cooler X or Y on top. You really have to be careful attaching any real world conclusions to those numbers, though. TDP is nothing but a rough indication, but actual numbers are always superior. Not to mention different manufacturers use different ways of calculating it. One famous example is AMD using it as a maximum, while Intel sees it as an average, meaning the same TDP number generally means using more power/producing more heat in Intel chips.

For that heat output: that is pretty much exactly proportional to the actual real world power consumption That is physics at work. Energy input is heat output and vice versa, though you might need to take added PSU load into account too.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Camacha