Front Landing Gear Not Deploying for Custom Cockpits (Thanks to Quicksave Problems)

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

I made several planes with custom cockpits; my own for 2.5-m fuselages, and @HB Stratos's custom cockpit (my inspiration for my own, by the way) for Mk3 fuselages. One thing I noticed on several of them during test flights was that the front landing gear would have trouble deploying. I then tried adding I-beams to the parts right behind the cockpits and attaching the landing gear to the forward end before moving said I-beam up, and that seemed to work.

 

Until a few days ago, that is, when I tested my E-41 Edison. More specifically, after I broke the propellers during a landing, I reverted to quicksave to try and land at the Temple of Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn. Despite the presence of an I-beam landing gear, it just would not deploy. After repeated failures, I decided to let it crash and scrap the project. If you want an example of what to expect, see the picture below of a C-119 test flight months ago.

• The outer fairings are doomed; the fate of the capsule inside depended on how slow the plane was when the fairings hit the ground.

 

I then pulled some planes from my SPH with custom cockpits of both sizes and experimented with the quicksave with the landing gear already deployed and not. Here's what I found:

If you set the quicksave WITH THE GEAR RETRACTED and you then revert to said quicksave, then the front gear WILL NOT DEPLOY.

If you set the quicksave WITH THE GEAR EXTENDED and you then revert to said quicksave, then your front landing gear IS FINE.

 

What's the problem? Why is it that the landing gear status at the time of setting a quicksave will affect whether or not the front landing gear under a custom cockpit will deploy if you revert to said quicksave? How can I fix this problem? Right now, this quicksave warning is the best solution I have - but it's a temporary solution until I get to the bottom of this. I want to be able to extend and retract all my wheels as I please, regardless of status at the time of a quicksave. If you want to try it out for yourself, the planes I experimented with are:

• VC-54 "Sacred Cow" - https://kerbalx.com/Mars-Bound_Hokie/VC-54C-Sacred-Cow-aka-C-54-Skymaster
• B-36 Peacemaker - https://kerbalx.com/Mars-Bound_Hokie/B-36-Peacemaker
• C-119 Flying Boxcar - https://kerbalx.com/Mars-Bound_Hokie/C-119-Flying-Boxcar
• Surveyor - https://kerbalx.com/Mars-Bound_Hokie/Surveyor-NO-SCIENCE-STATION
  • By the way, after a follow-up experiment with the Boxcar, the Surveyor randomly blew up when I selected it from the KSC (it was close enough to get selected directly instead of having to use the tracking station).

[Bobbejans]

is it because it is technically stowed?

btw how do add those badges to your username? at the bottom

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

6 hours ago, Bobbejans said:

is it because it is technically stowed?

That's what I was trying to avoid with the I-beam idea, but apparently that didn't work. I get the "Cannot deployed while stowed" message when I set the quicksave while retracted and then revert to said quicksave. How can I tell if a part is technically "stowed" or not?

• I even put a landing gear on the bottom of my B-36 cockpit without needing the I-beam (because I didn't discover that problem at the time I made it), but that didn't work in the recent experiments.

 

6 hours ago, Bobbejans said:

btw how do add those badges to your username? at the bottom

Click on your profile --> Account Settings --> Signature

From there, you can adjust the badge size accordingly and set them to direct you to specific links if someone clicks them.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Mars-Bound Hokie

[Bobbejans]

i think it might be stowed in the faring's  or the cargo bay so try and put it on the  fuel tank and maybe offset is see if that could work

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

18 hours ago, Bobbejans said:

try and put it on the  fuel tank

To be honest, those cockpits are mostly for aesthetic purposes - especially when I make replicas of planes on display in the Air Force Museum. For original works such as the Surveyor or the XE-41 Edison (the Fliegendlabor doesn't count since it has a tailwheel), I can't find any other 2.5-m cockpits that make it obvious it's a plane (like the Mk1 or Mk3). 

 

Furthermore, I can only move the front landing gear so far forward after attaching it to the part behind the cockpit. This limitation will put the craft at greater risk of the nose hitting the ground and snapping off during landing.

[Bobbejans]

ok sorry my bad

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

On 8/21/2024 at 1:06 AM, Bobbejans said:

ok sorry my bad

That's okay. It's not every day you see pure stock aircraft with custom cockpits that have low part counts. 

 

Is there another way I can use front landing gear on aircraft with custom cockpits (besides the quicksave tip)? Or do you recommend I stay away from those?

Edited August 23, 2024 by Mars-Bound Hokie
Added quote to alert Bobbejans

[Bobbejans]

what gear do you use for the plane? (could you maybe post it on kerbalx so i can take a look at it on my pc and maybe help you better?)

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

On 8/23/2024 at 3:50 PM, Bobbejans said:

could you maybe post it on kerbalx so i can take a look at it on my pc and maybe help you better?

Thanks. I already posted the KerbalX links for the planes I tested on the OP.

[Bobbejans]

wait what version are you on?

1.12.5?

 

it works fully fine for me i am on 1.12.5

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

11 hours ago, Bobbejans said:

wait what version are you on?

1.12.5?

 

it works fully fine for me i am on 1.12.5

Yes, since all my KerbalX craft since my (updated) F-104 Starfighter replica were made in 1.12.5. More specifically, I have:

• 1.12.5.3190 (WindowsPlayer x64) en-us
• 1.7.1 Breaking Ground
• KSPLauncher says I have:
  • Installed version: 3190
  • Most recent version: 3187

 

Also, are you sure you (Retracted landing gear) --> F5 --> (whatever) --> HOLD-F9 until quicksave reverted --> (Extended landing gear) when you tested those craft? If so, then is it possible that the problem is a one-time thing on my end? Maybe something that requires an equivalent of turning off and on again to work properly?

[Bobbejans]

i did not quick save and quick load but it still worked fine  

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

18 hours ago, Bobbejans said:

i did not quick save and quick load but it still worked fine  

The landing gear was okay WITHOUT the quicksaves involved. It was when they were that I started experiencing trouble, and the reason why I asked for help in the first place. Even then, I would be okay if I (Extended landing gear) --> F5 --> (whatever) --> HOLD-F9 until quicksave reverted --> (whatever). 

• Like I said in my previous post and OP, if the landing gear was RETRACTED at the time of setting my quicksave, the front wheels would get stuck when I reverted to said quicksave and tried to extend them.

[Bobbejans]

i put a structural pylon on the cargo bay and offset it to the front and added two of the smallest retractable gear to the pylon and it worked fine 

[Bobbejans]

i have posted a patch on kerbalx page so you could download it and i could remove it after (C-119 Flying Boxcar patch)

just ask me to remove it later

it has no images btw

[Mars-Bound Hokie]

Okay, I got it. Thanks.

 

First of all, how did you offset the structural pylon that far forward? I thought you attached it to my I-beam, but when I removed it the pylon was still there. For some reason, I cannot move the pylon that far forward. Is there a mod involved?

• I experienced a similar problem three months ago while I was making an AC-130 replica. More specifically, I tried to offset the propeller blades and nose cone far forward like AceGecko did with his C-130 engines, but I could not.
• Pictures of his engine in one piece and disassembled below.
  • You'll see the nose cone (and the blades attached to it) offset quite far forward.

AceGecko's C-130 Engine

Engine fully assembled	Engine taken apart (NCS Adapter was the root part)

 

Second of all, I tested your modified C-119 and it worked like a charm when I tried the quicksave while the gear was stowed. My only complaint was that it ruined the nose aesthetic a tiny bit, but at least the gear was functional when quicksave (while stowed) was involved.

 

• You can see the landing gear underneath the fuselage near the nose. Not a smooth look.
• On the bright side, at least the front landing gear works when quicksave is involved (if they were retracted while setting a quicksave) and I don't plan on using custom cockpits often.

 

• #spontaneousbailout
  • And the plane was working fine too.

 

Now that I have a(nother) possible remedy for this problem, I just need to know how I can offset parts farther than the regular hangar would let me.

[Bobbejans]

you can offset something even further by just holding shift and then dragging it 

what if you rotate the pylon and push it in a little in too the faring could that work?