(0.23) Wayland Corp. Development and released download Thread (new parts)

[Ohm Machre]

Ooooh, that'd look beautiful, Dev....

The GUI is nice, I admit. But ever since the action groups came out, it's really just kinda replaced, in my opinion.

That still doesn't mean I wouldn't use Mechjeb anyhow to CONTROL the dang things. XD <3

[Logan.Darklighter]

I'm not sure if I'm clear on the issue with MechJeb versus normalizing the fuel tanks to current standards. I have plenty of craft - rockets and jets both - that use the current resource fuel system and MechJeb works with them. I can even interface MechJeb with Helicopters and VTOL craft like stock-parts recreations of Harriers (that other people have made).

On the other hand, although I don't "grok" how to create action groups very well. I've no problem with using them. A good pilot uses every tool available to him after all. This is just adding more options.

And I -definitely- want the ability to refuel all your craft without having to take them "back to the barn" as it were. I want to be able to use that Kethane cracking station on the Mun to refuel Eagles at MBA and simply keep them up there indefinitely. Same with Laythe or even Tylo or any other place that has the sweet green gold.

[Devo]

I'm not sure if I'm clear on the issue with MechJeb versus normalizing the fuel tanks to current standards. I have plenty of craft - rockets and jets both - that use the current resource fuel system and MechJeb works with them. I can even interface MechJeb with Helicopters and VTOL craft like stock-parts recreations of Harriers (that other people have made).

On the other hand, although I don't "grok" how to create action groups very well. I've no problem with using them. A good pilot uses every tool available to him after all. This is just adding more options.

And I -definitely- want the ability to refuel all your craft without having to take them "back to the barn" as it were. I want to be able to use that Kethane cracking station on the Mun to refuel Eagles at MBA and simply keep them up there indefinitely. Same with Laythe or even Tylo or any other place that has the sweet green gold.

As far as I understood it, on the old one to activate the GUI menu, you need to specify the menu group in the part.cfg and also utilise the "muMechvariableEngine" rather than a "Part" or "LiquidEngine"

or similar.

If I didn't use the mumechvariable engines, then I got no GUI on the screen, so please if you can tell me a way I can intergrate the GUI with standard liquid fuel engines and tanks, I'd be more than happy to implement it.

[hoojiwana]

How are those emissives coming along Devo?

[UltraVires]

Wow Devo! That is ambitious... It's going to be Huge!!! Can't wait! Just to give everyone an idea of the scale of this thing, here it is...

Sad Joan Baez songs not included... lol

[Ohm Machre]

<

OH.

MY.

WORD.

That's freaking BEAUTIFUL, Devo. I want that as a super-orbital station, haha! XD

[Devo]

Wow Devo! That is ambitious... It's going to be Huge!!! Can't wait! Just to give everyone an idea of the scale of this thing, here it is...

Sad Joan Baez songs not included... lol

Yep, thankfully I've done 2 of the domes. I need to watch the movie again tonight to recall the other domes designs inside, they are all alternate habitats.

The ship design is basic, alot of simple truss work. Original model is 2km long, so kerbal scale we are looking roughly at 1280m

I modelled it off this scale model from the 70's, it has the correct biodome designs. I love using plastic models as references. Personally, I think people will freak out a bit it is so big, but If I can keep the FPS high then we should be ok, only other issue is dynamic struts, so it can be strutted after dockign procedures.

And the best part, the free meshes from 3D sites of the valley forge are SO big, they almost crash blender, so there is no way "you know who" is going to rip that 3d model and release it, he couldn't. KSP would crash in 1 second trying to load a 1 million poly object up. My valley forge is kicking in at 9000 tries so far, I am trying to keep the entire thing under 12,000 tris.

@Hooji emissives will be going tonight hopefully, had my wedding anniversary on last night.. if I spent the night modding I would have been less 1 testicle today

Edited April 26, 2013 by Devo

[Ohm Machre]

XD That is a VERY good reason to not mod.

You are just making me more and more excited for your mods, Devo. I almost want to ask to be a PERMANENT tester, but know I have neither the resource or time. xP

[hoojiwana]

And the best part, the free meshes from 3D sites of the valley forge are SO big, they almost crash blender, so there is no way "you know who" is going to rip that 3d model and release it, he couldn't. KSP would crash in 1 second trying to load a 1 million poly object up. My valley forge is kicking in at 9000 tries so far, I am trying to keep the entire thing under 12,000 tris.

@Hooji emissives will be going tonight hopefully, had my wedding anniversary on last night.. if I spent the night modding I would have been less 1 testicle today

Is that a picture of your model and your hand there?

12,000 tris at a complete guess would be equivalent to a space station or something in KSP currently. Certainly less than some of the crazier things I've built with mod parts.

Keep me posted on those emissives, I absolutely love seeing them running!

[Logan.Darklighter]

As far as I understood it, on the old one to activate the GUI menu, you need to specify the menu group in the part.cfg and also utilise the "muMechvariableEngine" rather than a "Part" or "LiquidEngine"

or similar.

If I didn't use the mumechvariable engines, then I got no GUI on the screen, so please if you can tell me a way I can intergrate the GUI with standard liquid fuel engines and tanks, I'd be more than happy to implement it.

Wait... Oh I think I get what you're saying. It's not that mechjeb overall would fail to work if you included it, it's just that that specific GUI that switches the engines on and off wouldn't work and you'd replace it with an action group toggle?

Okay - THAT I'm all for! Having the GUI as an OPTION would be nice. But I've never liked depending on it as my primary method of toggling. I'd love me a couple of On/Off toggles on the keyboard for that. Would be much more intuitive. I'd still use Mech-Jeb for all that other stuff that you saw in the video, but being able to just toggle the engines with the keyboard gets a thumbs up from me.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Wow Devo! That is ambitious... It's going to be Huge!!! Can't wait! Just to give everyone an idea of the scale of this thing, here it is...

Sad Joan Baez songs not included... lol

***KLONG***

(sound of jaw hitting deck percussively)

[clarkmp]

I assume you mean thrust power?

Yes i did thank you...it was a long night of work on the Azuras station and i'm working to have the WT-51 be the main supply workhorse!.

Sounds nice. Can you post what you edited in the config file? I'd like to try that out.

name = ModuleRCS

thrusterTransformName = RCSthruster

thrusterPower = 4

resourceName = MonoPropellant

atmosphereCurve

The red shows the edit. The line is all the way at the bottom of the config in the module section. Please not that a lower value may be possible as this is a significant increase over the stock thrusterPower of 1. It does feel a bit cheatish at this level. For myself though it helps get used to fly a craft very different from what i'm used to....a standard rocket! Using this though you can fly a standard launch path to orbit that you would for a rocket....turn at 10k...45°, etc...

[Devo]

Is that a picture of your model and your hand there?

12,000 tris at a complete guess would be equivalent to a space station or something in KSP currently. Certainly less than some of the crazier things I've built with mod parts.

Keep me posted on those emissives, I absolutely love seeing them running!

I wish!! no that was one of those models as a kid my parents would never buy me

What I do, is visit my second home http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/

And if I can find it there, I generally will ebay for it but sadly the only valley forges available today are small wooden replicas, I want the plastic kit.

@Logan, exactly.

[Ohm Machre]

....I just realized something.

1200 meters?!

Good GOD...... trying to launch that thing already makes my brain cringe at merely the THOUGHT. xD

[Devo]

....I just realized something.

1200 meters?!

Good GOD...... trying to launch that thing already makes my brain cringe at merely the THOUGHT. xD

haha no, it will not be launched.

When I was making the Sulaco, it became very apparent, that to create VTOl engines (that never really existed in any movie) to lift the sulaco would be a cheat almost.

Yes, I could make 20 metre engines that provide enough thrust, but wheres the fun in that and it would guzzle so much fuel to get up there it would be insanely heavy to get off the ground, so no

lol not going up in one piece. I set about making custom decouplers for the Sulaco which need to go up in 9 pieces and attached in orbit.

To give you an idea, the WT-51 was 55m long, the Sulaco is 350m and Valley forge 1280m. I think from experience, the WT-51 at 100 tonnes, and 55 meters is about as big as you want to try and VTOL

otherwise the extra engines and such cause so much lag. The big question now, what is an acceptable scale piece to take into orbit, and how heavy?

I have not even started to figure out the mass of this thing yet, right now it's as light as a feather. I can't see us launching anything higher than 80-100 metres from the vertical hangar either, so pieces will need to be no more than 120m, so in effect 12-14 pieces should suffice to build it in space.

[Ohm Machre]

haha no, it will not be launched.

When I was making the Sulaco, it became very apparent, that to create VTOl engines (that never really existed in any movie) to lift the sulaco would be a cheat almost.

Yes, I could make 20 metre engines that provide enough thrust, but wheres the fun in that and it would guzzle so much fuel to get up there it would be insanely heavy to get off the ground, so no

lol not going up in one piece. I set about making custom decouplers for the Sulaco which need to go up in 9 pieces and attached in orbit.

To give you an idea, the WT-51 was 55m long, the Sulaco is 350m and Valley forge 1280m. I think from experience, the WT-51 at 100 tonnes, and 55 meters is about as big as you want to try and VTOL

otherwise the extra engines and such cause so much lag. The big question now, what is an acceptable scale piece to take into orbit, and how heavy?

I have not even started to figure out the mass of this thing yet, right now it's as light as a feather.

Well, let's see.

If the "Gojira" is 55 meters at 100T... and the Sulaco alone is 350m. If scaled directly proportionally, that's, for estimation, a 1/7 ratio.

So we can expect the Sulaco to be roughly 700 tons.

Then, the Valley Forge, according to you, is 1,280 meters. We can again try to scale proportionally, but considering parts of it aren't the same material as the Gojira or Sulaco, it wouldn't work in the end... but it can give us a start.

1280m divided by 9 is a hair over 142 meters apiece.

Give or take, the scale between Gojira and one section, therefore, is 55/142, because it doesn't really divide cleanly, I think. But, we can round and estimate, again.

55/142 can be roughly translated to 50/150, or 1/3.

Thus, EACH section of the Valley Forge would be 300 tons, give or take according to their material.

That's 2700 tons BASE.

And that's massive.

But, looking at the "rough draft" picture Mr. Vires provided, it's easy to see we can't divide it into 9 equal parts, haha.

But again, all this is rough estimation and what-not.

To lift 300 tons into stable orbits is most DEFINITELY not easy, however, so I can foresee the need to have custom boosters - unless someone can prove me wrong, I can't see stock parts being able to do it. :/

........also, reading your post, you were talking about the Sulaco being 9 parts. x3

Though, the same concept applies here, I believe.

Plugging into my calculator, I found that 1280 divides evenly with 16, which equals 80 meters per part - MUCH more manageable.

That's also a near-even scale Gojira-to-Forge of 5/8. Which means every portion is 162.5 tons, and, again, MUCH more manageable than 300, haha.

EDIT: Plugged it into my calculator, and 2700/16 is 168.75 tons. My apologies. x3

Edited April 26, 2013 by Ohm Machre

[Ohm Machre]

....also, long post is long. I can really delve into the mechanics behind stuff like this - it's why I enjoy astronomy so. ;D

[Logan.Darklighter]

Surely the Gojira could be used to ferry some parts to orbit? Can any of the Sulaco parts fit in the bay? Can the dropship?

[hoojiwana]

If you wanted to be really snazzy you could try using a Blender plugin to work out the volume and area, and then create a mass by providing a guess at a density. Obviously you'll have to tweak things and decide if the numbers that tool creates are usable, but still!

Edited April 26, 2013 by hoojiwana

[Ohm Machre]

Surely the Gojira could be used to ferry some parts to orbit? Can any of the Sulaco parts fit in the bay? Can the dropship?

According to Dev's measurements, the Sulaco is 7 times longer than our friend Gojira. xD

[Devo]

I did say 1280m was kerbal scale. The Valley Forge, Human scale is 2km.

You slice 64 percent of that, 1280 roughly to make it even for a kerbal scale and there you go. Domes are 120 metres in diameter, 6 of each the rest of it is mainly truss and the command centre.

Sulaco in the game, I don't know if I can do 350m actually, it's just looking way too big for kerbals.

I think I really need to finish this dropship, and then im going to scale the Sulaco around the dropship.. yes, thats it!

ahh glad its friday night, got so much i wanna get done

@Ohm, i'm a simple man... it's going to take me a minute to take that all in lol

Edited April 26, 2013 by Devo

[Ohm Machre]

I did say 1280m was kerbal scale.

The Valley Forge Human scale is 2km.

:0

One: that is MASSIVE.

Two: Didn't I say Sulaco? ;P

[Devo]

One: that is MASSIVE.

Two: Didn't I say Sulaco? ;P

Yes but the same thing applies, 350m is human scale, so you need to cut that down.. but as I was saying with the Sulaco you still need to fit that dropship in the bay, so it has to be a certain size.. thats what I was having a tough time with. I'm not scaling 1 mod, im scaling 3 mods at the same time, because the APC needs to fit inside the dropship, and the dropship inside the Sulaco.

[Ohm Machre]

Yes but the same thing applies, 350m is human scale, so you need to cut that down.. but as I was saying with the Sulaco you still need to fit that dropship in the bay, so it has to be a certain size.. thats what I was having a tough time with. I'm not scaling 1 mod, im scaling 3 mods at the same time, because the APC needs to fit inside the dropship, and the dropship inside the Sulaco.

OHH......

Well, then! Good thing I'm in a math mood! ;D

If the Kerbal Forge is 1.28km, and the human Forge is 2km, that's a comparative scale of 0.64.

350*0.64 is 224 meters.

So, then, 224m/9 is a hair under 25 meters. POTENTIALLY, a single Sulaco part could fit inside the Gojira..... however, some of the parts just won't be able to, will it?

Then, how big are the other two ships in comparison to the Sulaco?

[Devo]

OHH......

Well, then! Good thing I'm in a math mood! ;D

If the Kerbal Forge is 1.28km, and the human Forge is 2km, that's a comparative scale of 0.64.

350*0.64 is 224 meters.

So, then, 224m/9 is a hair under 25 meters. POTENTIALLY, a single Sulaco part could fit inside the Gojira..... however, some of the parts just won't be able to, will it?

Then, how big are the other two ships in comparison to the Sulaco?

You know..

I can't believe I made a transport vessel and didnt even think to use that for the Sulaco pieces... jeeez..

make a bigger cargo bay? I can make a custom bay for the Gojira designed specifically for Sulaco and other ship parts, essentially the WT-51 will be turned into a custom space station transport vessel.

I'll make the bay wider and have an opening canopy instead of the side.