Frameshift and FTL Drives– Puffin Technologies

[Scotius]

Which would also make a ship with such drive an ultimate, planet-killing weapon of mass and utter destruction

[Mekan1k]

Any FTL drive would count as a planet-killer.

But there is an additional thing I know people don't realize about the alcubierre drive: when the 'shield' is on, the ship is mass-less.

The distortion bubble is active, the ship is effectively removed from the universe, right? Nothing can pass through the shield. Not matter, or energy, or gravity. The bubble would move in a straight line out of the solar system and galaxy, with the speed it had before turning on the bubble, but with no mass to be effected by the gravity well of a star, it would just KEEP GOING.

Planets, stars, and any structure that gets in it's way would get a bite taken out of them by the ship.

The propulsive effect is defined by a self-perpetuating positive/negative distortion created by the SHAPE of the distortion field, and since nothing could pass through the field, a driver would need to precisely calculate the time needed to turn on the field, at full acceleration, then the reverse acceleration time, then the time when the field needs to be turned off so that the micro-flickers of the field as it shifts the ship back into normal-space utilizes the higgs-field to accrue momentum, slowing down from superluminal to below just from the ship passing through space, like a plane with airbrakes opened.

The reason the ship would want to do this? To shed the alcubierre shock at below the speed of light, so that the ship does not receive any excess backscatter radiation.

At this point, the pilot utilizes the frameshift engine (Technically it is the same engine, just without the bubble that allows superluminal travel, the frameshift effect can be seen as a completely different engine) to set a proper orbit, and then uses the frameshift to maneuver through the system.

So, what would it seem like inside an alcubierre bubble?

It would be dark, sort of.

In theory.

No light can pass through the bubble, so as soon as the computer finishes the timing calculations for the FTL movement, and the engine turns on, the stars would appear to blink out.

Then, any light or radiation would be contained within the bubble with perfect efficiency, meaning that if you went on EVA (not wise to do at FTL, but assuming you are Jeb and did anyway), the flashlight on your suit would perfectly reflect off the domain 'wall' of the bubble. The ship would reflect some of the light, but a set percentage would be absorbed by the matter within the bubble, and that would dim the light down to nothing (in effect) after a little time delay.

Anyway, you return from EVA, and buckle yourself in, as the pilot alerts the ship that the ship is about to begin braking maneuvers. (Higgs field-effect braking)

You look out the window, and see stars start to flicker on and off, as the bubble becomes semi-permeable, and a hellish glare forms from the 'front' of the field (the direction the field was moving).

That glare is the alcubierre shock-wave, and as you watch, what appears to be a star flares in 'front' of the ship, flying away from the ship at a sizable percentage of the speed of light, so fast that the light and energy it is emitting is red-shifted to a nearly painful extent.

The pilot then announces that the frameshift drive is active, and the ship starts to decelerate. You don't notice that, of course, as the frameshifting makes the ship 'fall' in a desired direction.

That's what it would be like. In theory.

[OrbitusII]

And that is what I was thinking for the Alcubierre drive– Turn it on to a set speed, it accelerates everything within the bubble to that speed over a short amount of time, then you can turn it off and it slows down, but leaves the ship with some velocity (inertia!) instead of just stopping entirely.

[Mekan1k]

The thing is, the bubble has no mass, right? So it will not slow down unless the field distorts enough TO slow it down. An alcubierre bubble traveling at 3x light-speed would remain at that speed until it starts reverse-thrust.

(When the bubble is active the mass of everything inside the bubble becomes, in effect, 0, as the higgs field and mach's law cannot effect it.)

[Scotius]

Fascinating stuff. So, Warp ship would not need any other drive? Just one engine with two settings: Warp for FTL, and frameshift to move in normal space? Would the mass-less condition still work in frameshift mode? So the ship could've been accelerating at 100 g's - but crew and everything in the bubble would be in freefall? *gasp* Great stars...'torchship' as imagined by Heinlein doesn't hold the candle to such vessel But, ship moving slower than light still would be visible, right? Maybe distorted by light bending on the bubble's wall - how could that look? Huge ball of light? Rainbow-like beams shooting in all directions?

[Mekan1k]

Frameshifting is not mass-less, as it does not use the bubble as the superluminal mode does.

The free-fall at 100g's is actually an illusion, propagated by the contracting node of space that the frameshift engine generates in front of the ship.

If the bubble is intact, there is no object in the universe that could pass through the bubble, no matter the speed. That is why there is the alcubierre shock effect- to allow for high-enough energy densities to be taken into account, (In theory, at FTL delta-v between two objects, with the assumption that the bubble is impermeable, the energy density within the shock effect would be akin to that of the universe within less than 1/10th of a second of it's expansion, and therefore the energy can be, in effect, infinite), so it is perfectly reflective from the outside.

However, if the ship is under frameshift drive, then the factors are different. There would be a semi-silvered effect (Barely noticeable, unless you are outside the ship, and even then, mostly around the drive) around the ship, as the bubble is partly generated to allow the ship to be protected from gravitational shearing, but light would still pass through, as would large-enough clumps of matter (Asteroids bigger than the ship, planets, stars, etc.), but the ship would be effected by relativity, as the bubble is not perfect.

So... Stars and light sources from the 'front' (direction the ship is moving in while under power @ 100g's) would be severely blue-shifted, while light sources from behind the ship would be severely red-shifted.

Of course, the gravitational point-source in front of the ship would act as a lens, further blue-shifting the light as it enters the point-source, but then red-shifting as the light crawls out of the gravity well.....

If you wanted to look for alcubierre ships, look for the supernova-bright flashes as the superluminal drives have the shock vented after a long journey.

So, to simplify- when the drive is in Alcubierre mode, the bubble is active, and nothing can penetrate the bubble- not light, not matter, not anything. If the drive is in frameshift mode, there is no significant bubble effect, so the light in front of the ship traveling at 100 g's would be blue-shifted significantly, while at the rear the effect would be a significant red-shift.

In the book Pushing Ice by Alistair Reynolds, a whole moon uses a massive frameshift engine to accelerate out of the solar system at 50G acceleration, taking nearby ships that are unfortunate enough to get sucked into it's semi-bubble to be towed along, taking the crew of the Rockhopper and on a journey several billion years into the future. The front of the moon is described as 'a hellish landscape, where the blue-shifted starlight can drive a man mad', until the moon intersects with a secondary accelerator that provides a shield as the moon is accelerated to 10,000 g's, up to 99.9999999999999% the speed of light.

Here's a link to the wiki- I have the book, so hey. I thought 'sci-fi' engine and saw that KSP could support this system. Any serious sci-fi fans or physicists should read this book. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushing_Ice

EDIT: although the frameshift engine does not cause the 'mass-less' effect of the bubble, it is technically inertia-less, as it has no propellant. The plugin lets the engine need no propellant, just power.

SHEER POWAH!!!!

Edited June 26, 2013 by Mekan1k

[Scotius]

Thank you, but that's not what i was asking for. How would such ship look from the outside? Would the image be distorted? Would it generate light? You've mentioned silvery effect visible from outside - does that mean warpship would look like a polished metal ball? And yes, i have a good reason to grill you in such way

[Mekan1k]

With the full bubble it would appear to be a silver sphere (If the propulsion is inactive), or a distorted smooth oblong silver shape (At lightspeed and past, although if you can see it the gravitational flux of it's drive would shred the observer). Think a silver medicine ball that is being squished by an invisible fist inequaly. It would reflect all light perfectly, and matter (unless the delta-v is past lighspeed) would disintegrate into subatomic particles if it touched.

EDIT: Does that description what you want?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Mekan1k

[Scotius]

Yes, it does. And this significantly raises my hopes that: A) Alien civilisations do exist. Warp drive can in fact be build.

And, hypothetically speaking of course, if i ever again go to my backyard at night to look at the stars, and instead spot very fast moving light, streaking soundlessly above my town i will finally know what i'm looking at.

[Mekan1k]

...

You might want to look for stars going out. Civilizations that can build alcubierre drives can also destroy planets and stars with almost too much ease. If the aim is slightly off, by less than 1/1,000,000th of a degree, the ship could miss it's target, or worse, hit a star and obliterate it.

The supernova-level shock would seem to be stars popping up where there were no stars.

So look out of the corner of your eye, for the teltale flashes in the darkness between stars. That might just be a ship

[Scotius]

Nah, gamma ray bursts Since scientists don't know what produces them, i like to think they are generated by warp ships dropping out of FTL.

[OrbitusII]

So, some bad news. The laptop I have KSP and all my plugin code on can't run KSP anymore, I've had two crashes in as many tries in as many days, so I'm effectively unable to test my code (good thing I started doing the InDev releases– public testing!). Fortunately, my new motherboard, processor, and PSU come in Tuesday, so I'll be able to start building my new computer. The downside to that upside is that I don't have all the parts I need to complete it (notably RAM, but I may have some available). However, I also got a new job, so I'll have some significant income starting sometime in the next two weeks, so I'll probably be able to buy what I need in three-four weeks, but if I order it from Amazon, I'll have to wait again...

It's just a mess right now, so no plugin writing for me until something clears up. Just sitting around, watching videos on Youtube over and over...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PL2AB33A0C047D4573&v=RG5bESZaTQ0

Ha! Just kidding!

This is actually what I've been watching:

PBS Idea Channel (channel, duh!)

Veritasium (channel)

Etalyx & Co. Messing Around in GTA 4 (bunch of videos)

If you just need something quick and cool to watch, check out the channels. If you want hilarious random stuff, watch Etalyx (a.k.a. GamersDissent).

So... yep. No code updates for a little while. It's not like I'm dead or anything... just unable to write code that I can test...

[Scotius]

Aww Sorry to hear that. Compter on fritz is bad news indeed. Well, maybe there is a good side to delay - looks like update 0.21 is upon us. So who knows, maybe when you get new rig, you'll be able to work on updated version already?

[OrbitusII]

Aww Sorry to hear that. Compter on fritz is bad news indeed. Well, maybe there is a good side to delay - looks like update 0.21 is upon us. So who knows, maybe when you get new rig, you'll be able to work on updated version already?

Most likely. Since there haven't been mod-breaking updates in a while (ok, 0.20 messed up folder hierarchies a little and requires the PART{} thing) the 0.20 versions should work with 0.21, but we'll see if there are any tweaks that might break it.

New computer will be very nice, a pathetic 4gb of RAM is not my idea of a good computer (KSP proved that). Then there's the dumb audio jack (wiggle headphone jack = no longer connected) and the broken track pad... the list goes on. Plus it's the family computer, so having my own is necessary to having only my stuff on it, keeping the HDD open and happy.

Oh, and having plenty of RAM and an NVIDIA GeForce with a nice new motherboard and processor (well, they're within the 1-year age group) will definitely beef up my gaming abilities. Perhaps I'll stream KSP once it's done!

Computer-buying lesson: Apple has good stuff, but I prefer the modularity of my own system already. Plus I can brag about having a Hackintosh, so there's that.

Edited June 28, 2013 by OrbitusII
REDUNDANCY!!! D:

[Pigbear]

Most likely. Since there haven't been mod-breaking updates in a while (ok, 0.20 messed up folder hierarchies a little and requires the PART{} thing) the 0.20 versions should work with 0.21, but we'll see if there are any tweaks that might break it.

New computer will be very nice, a pathetic 4gb of RAM is not my idea of a good computer (KSP proved that). Then there's the dumb audio jack (wiggle headphone jack = no longer connected) and the broken track pad... the list goes on. Plus it's the family computer, so having my own is necessary to having only my stuff on it, keeping the HDD open and happy.

Oh, and having plenty of RAM and an NVIDIA GeForce with a nice new motherboard and processor (well, they're within the 1-year age group) will definitely beef up my gaming abilities. Perhaps I'll stream KSP once it's done!

Computer-buying lesson: Apple has good stuff, but I prefer the modularity of my own system already. Plus I can brag about having a Hackintosh, so there's that.

"hackintosh", Not as bad as my Frankensoft!

[Lazurkri]

Most likely. Since there haven't been mod-breaking updates in a while (ok, 0.20 messed up folder hierarchies a little and requires the PART{} thing) the 0.20 versions should work with 0.21, but we'll see if there are any tweaks that might break it.

New computer will be very nice, a pathetic 4gb of RAM is not my idea of a good computer (KSP proved that). Then there's the dumb audio jack (wiggle headphone jack = no longer connected) and the broken track pad... the list goes on. Plus it's the family computer, so having my own is necessary to having only my stuff on it, keeping the HDD open and happy.

Oh, and having plenty of RAM and an NVIDIA GeForce with a nice new motherboard and processor (well, they're within the 1-year age group) will definitely beef up my gaming abilities. Perhaps I'll stream KSP once it's done!

Computer-buying lesson: Apple has good stuff, but I prefer the modularity of my own system already. Plus I can brag about having a Hackintosh, so there's that.

theres always good deals on Ebay, if you're willing to try that route!

[OrbitusII]

theres always good deals on Ebay, if you're willing to try that route!

Yeah, I've looked a couple times, but nothing's really stood out to me, plus I know Amazon is reliable (enough to satisfy me anyway) whereas Ebay is kinda... iffy. I'll be sure to look again anyway, since you recommended it.

Semi-major update on my game plan for building the new rig: 3 HDDs (maybe an SSD, depending on if I can get an adapter for my case and if I want 4/5 hard drive slots filled)

HDD1 (500GB,just needs to be zero-ed before usage)

OS: Ubuntu

Enables new computer and KSP

Free

No Unity, MonoDevelop

Unfamiliar

At least with Ubuntu I'll be able to use my new computer, and since KSP is also available for Linux

(of which Ubuntu is a derivative, if anyone was not aware)

I'll be able to test code I write on the family laptop.

HDD2 (1TB, needs to be bought)

OS: Windows 7

Unity and Monodevelop

More familiar

Streaming... maybe

Not OS X, which I prefer

Not my favorite OS, but it's getting back into my comfort zone and allows me to regain the ability to code and test on a single system.

HDD3 (1TB, needs to be bought)

OS: Mac OS X

Very familiar

Streaming (for sure)

Semi-difficult to maintain on a non-Apple system

Back to my roots! I understand this OS best, so I'll be happy to have it.

However, I've heard some negative stuff about 10.8, so there's some wiggle room in which of the three OSes I'll use on a regular basis.

I'll probably order HDD2 and HDD3 together, along with a copy of W7. Maybe I'll get an extra monitor as well, since I now have income I can use for this sort of thing.

So I'm sure you're asking, "Orbitus, why are you telling us all of this?" The answer is quite simple: I need my own computer to be able to develop addons efficiently and I want to be able to stream some actual KSP gameplay (4GB RAM on a laptop is NOT the way to go), so I figure it's nice to let you guys know how the building process is going, even when I'm just planning.

To be honest, I might actually start doing the computer updates in The Junkyard, but what has been said has been said, or "I'm Not Going to Mess With This Thread to Move ALL the Computer Updates There." Even so, this is Addon Development, not Random Stuff!

[Mekan1k]

Name it.... The FranekenMac!

[techno65535]

...Snip...alcubierre...Snip...inertia-less...Snip

These words here made me think of the 'Star Carrier' series by Ian Douglas and 'The Stars at War by Steve White respectively. If you haven't read them you should, quite good reads. The drive in 'The Stars at War' is very much like the sub-luminial mode you described, though without the red/blue shift and instant accelleration to a certain percentage of the speed of light...okay, maybe not so much like it but close in how it's described it works.

[Mekan1k]

Update on progress:

Due to the fact that OrbitusII is assembling a new BEAST computer, and my general incompetence with the programing language, there has not been much progress so far.

HOWEVER!

Our last dev-build was designed to apply an equal force to all components of the ship when the drive was activated.

The problem: if there was an non-symmetrical number of parts on the craft, it would cause a MASSIVE torque on the center of mass, and that just won't do.

SO!

We discussed, today, a method by which the forces that plugin calculates would be applied equally to all parts AND if the center of thrust (CoT) does not line up with the center of mass (CoM) the force on all parts would be halved, and then a duplicate force would be applied to the opposite side of the craft.

What does this mean to all you who are looking forward to this mod?

It means that when the frameshift is completed, there will be versions of the engine that are radial-only, and they will be capable of boosting anything, from an asymmetrical space station to a large oddly-shaped lander, on it's journey throughout the kerbol system.

It also means that there will be more testing, but hey! That's life.

So expect an update.... Sometime

[OrbitusII]

As a matter of fact, I just got my RAM today (sadly it's only 4GB, but having new stuff and a (generally) clear HDD should help a bit) so I'll have the machine complete within one to two weeks, depending on when I can get together with my friend who has the optical drive and VGA card. I won't have anything done (besides installing the CPU and PSU) this weekend due to my new job and a three-day family vacation starting this friday. Still, I'm very excited to be this close to having it done.

Once my new computer is done I'll probably spend a few days getting set up and becoming familiar with Ubuntu, then I'll begin coding and testing again.

My estimated for starting up again is two weeks, but it may be shorter or longer due to coordination of schedules both with work and getting the last two parts. I'll be sure to let you know when I'm done building (probably with big, bold letters).

For now, enjoy... nothing. I don't have any videos that I feel need publicity, so sit back, pop some popcorn, and enjoy a big blank screen.

Or you could find some Mythbusters on Youtube– they're always good.

[Mekan1k]

New engine in development (Will use the frameshift plugin when released)- The Radial Micro-frameshift engine!

Runs on pure electricity, this little beauty will call any kraken within 1/2 lightyears to come feast on your ship as it hurtles across the system! Just attach somewhere to any current vehicle, and as long as the ring is pointed in the direction you don't want the ship to go, it will go away from there!

May contain fractal space-time and crazy programming language.

May not be suitable for anyone under the age of 12.

May contain arsenic.

May contain espestos.

May contain space snakes.

*Side effects may include: Summoning the kraken, space-time inversion, temporal displacement, RUDS (Rapid unintended disassembled syndrome), and space lupus.

[Mekan1k]

Update: Not much. The Frameshift Micro ^^^^^ I am working on right now, and trying out different designs. When I have some better-looking ones, I will ask for a vote.

So!

What's going on in a conversation between myself and OrbitusII right now:

(Be glad it's not the 10 hr one)

I can hear you asking: Is there any way those two geniuses are doing that?

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, stay tuned for more development updates!

[Lazurkri]

These words here made me think of the 'Star Carrier' series by Ian Douglas and 'The Stars at War by Steve White respectively. If you haven't read them you should, quite good reads. The drive in 'The Stars at War' is very much like the sub-luminial mode you described, though without the red/blue shift and instant accelleration to a certain percentage of the speed of light...okay, maybe not so much like it but close in how it's described it works.

Yay someone else who has read what I have!

[OrbitusII]

Too many nyans!!! It's like synthesized Japanese music is trying to get into my head!

Or maybe I'm just listening to too much of it...

"You listen to weird synthesized Japanese music?!"

Anyway, I figured I may as well pre-release the new Frameshift model so you guys can mess with it. I'll probably have to fix the nodes to be in the right position, but it's available and configured for use in KSP.

ZE DOWNLOAD LINK

Just drop it into GameData/FTL/Parts and it should be ready to go. Be sure to let me know about any bugs you notice while using it!

Please Note: The animation on the new model is not set up yet. This requires code to be written for the animation control, and MonoDevelop doesn't like being updated (it's permissions get all messed up and crap ) so I won't be messing with that until I can code and test again.

Edited July 10, 2013 by OrbitusII