HydroTech Development Thread

[Michael Kim]

I'm currently not interested in maintaining HydroTech mods, until the game is in a more complete state, let's say, beta. This is not a promise though that I will come back when KSP beta comes out. However, I would still like to hold all rights of these mods in case I will.

If anyone is interested in maintaining HydroTech mods during this time, please contact me via PM.

HydroTech RCS Autopilot

Any bug report or suggestion goes here. If you want to download the HydroTech RCS Autopilot mod, please go to the release thread.

Future plans (plugin), by ETA (may change)

- Loading/saving system, remembering panels states and settings (done!)

- Jebs as ASAS

- Lever arm compensation

- Quantum struts on docking parts

- Orbit adjustment

- Orbital rendezvous

- Can't remember more, remind me guys! And tell me what you want!

Future plans (parts)

- Docking ports with DA system installed

How to report a bug?

- List what other plugin mods (those with a .dll in Plugins folder) are used, and which of them are functioning. Also, if ASAS is on, please tell me.

- Describe what you did with HydroTech mod, and what the problem is.

- Check the debug console (Alt + F2) and see if there's anything in red. If yes, please post the content (which can also be found in KSP_Data\output_log.txt).

Making suggestions

New parts, new features, improvement of current features... Everything is fine and I'm happy to discuss with you.

However, please do not suggest:

1) Remodel or change the texture of parts "because they are ugly"

Nothing fits everyone's taste.

2) Removing a feature "because MechJeb does it"

If you think MechJeb does it better (which is fair because I'm just an undergrad and this mod started much later than MechJeb), use MechJeb.

Latest work

2013.08.28

- Finished the new version. Released on Spaceport and Mediafire.

HydroTech Mouse Drive

Download: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26229

Future plans (plugin)

- Add saving/loading.

- Multiple sizes

- ?

Latest work

2013.06.03

- Uploaded the new version to mediafire.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Michael Kim

[Read have Read]

Any plans to have a docking port with Hydrotech built in? A connection node currently needs 6 docking ports, and 6 docking assistance stacks, or if it must be low profile, 6 ports with 6 targets and 6 cameras, a docking port with hydrotech gizmo's would be the lowest of profiles, easy to implement on all craft and cut down on part counts.

[Michael Kim]

Any plans to have a docking port with Hydrotech built in?

Good idea! I'm not really a part maker so I'm not sure if it's within my ability, but I'll try it

[Garoad]

I agree that's a great idea - especially if it's more compact than using a port + HydroTech_DA_1m "disc" combo. A jr. port size would be cool too.

Any chance such docking ports could have a bit "stronger" link when docked, or is that something not moddable?

[Garoad]

A few more ideas:

1) Any chance we can get it to use main engines for medium-range approaches? Something like 20,000m range or at least 1,000m would be awesome. Biggest feature for me would be velocity equalization once you get into range.

2) Is it possible to implement velocity zeroing or an automated approach for ANY nearby object even if it doesn't have HydroTech installed? I know docking probably isn't feasible (thus the guide equipment), but just nulling relative v would help massively. This would be great for cleaning up debris. I've found that my ability to grab or dock with free floating space junk (using the awesome Buran shuttle mod) is just short of being able to actually GRAB the debris due to an unability to zero my relative velocity. I got pretty close but it is REALLY hard grabbing those floating decouplers and junk like that.

[Michael Kim]

Any chance such docking ports could have a bit "stronger" link when docked, or is that something not moddable?

Quantum struts already does this, and it's the only way I can think of for now. I may consider adding quantum strut alike stuff to docking cameras and targets in the future

A few more ideas:

1) Any chance we can get it to use main engines for medium-range approaches? Something like 20,000m range or at least 1,000m would be awesome. Biggest feature for me would be velocity equalization once you get into range.

2) Is it possible to implement velocity zeroing or an automated approach for ANY nearby object even if it doesn't have HydroTech installed? I know docking probably isn't feasible (thus the guide equipment), but just nulling relative v would help massively. This would be great for cleaning up debris. I've found that my ability to grab or dock with free floating space junk (using the awesome Buran shuttle mod) is just short of being able to actually GRAB the debris due to an unability to zero my relative velocity. I got pretty close but it is REALLY hard grabbing those floating decouplers and junk like that.

These are about orbital rendezvous and it's in my plan (but not in the near future). Good reminder as I forgot things after the forum broke down For now, MechJeb is doing pretty well

[Michael Kim]

new version out w/ loading & saving. check it out!

[Garoad]

Maybe a "built-in" quantum strut option then? Love this mod - can't wait to see what's next.

[KhaosCorp]

This is a GREAT mod, thanks so much for makin it. That having been said Im having some minor issues with it...

I typicaly don't use the automatic docking...I use kill realative V and alignment and then maneuver myself using the camera. Problem I get is that most times after I get the 2 ships docked they start to spin....usualy to the point of destruction. Soon as the dock is complete I shut down the hydro system (unselect camera/target and disengage) and even mechjeb cant stop the spinning if it starts. Do you know of any know issues with other parts (maybe from mod packs like nova punch/kw rocketry)

thanks in advance =P

[Michael Kim]

This is a GREAT mod, thanks so much for makin it. That having been said Im having some minor issues with it...

I typicaly don't use the automatic docking...I use kill realative V and alignment and then maneuver myself using the camera. Problem I get is that most times after I get the 2 ships docked they start to spin....usualy to the point of destruction. Soon as the dock is complete I shut down the hydro system (unselect camera/target and disengage) and even mechjeb cant stop the spinning if it starts. Do you know of any know issues with other parts (maybe from mod packs like nova punch/kw rocketry)

thanks in advance =P

Since you docked manually, I don't see any reason why the ship starts to spin, as the kill relative v and auto alignment autopilots should disengage themselves after docking. Problem might be

1) You have other controls on the ship, like MechJeb or even ASAS. Try disengage all of them.

2) Some autopilots fail to disengage properly. In this case, check the debug console (Alt + F2) first and see if there's anything in red.

[Garoad]

One extra comment about the built-in quantum strut option - consider making these completely transparent to the player if possible rather than laser-like or visible struts. They could engage/disengage automatically upon docking/undocking, no player interaction needed.

[Michael Kim]

One extra comment about the built-in quantum strut option - consider making these completely transparent to the player if possible rather than laser-like or visible struts. They could engage/disengage automatically upon docking/undocking, no player interaction needed.

I'd like them to engage manually as it's easier for coding (as I think now) but disengage automatically when undock.

[KhaosCorp]

Turns out I was forgetting to disable asas system on target vehicle sometimes...figured it was something simple I was overlooking. Thanks for such a fast response =)

[Simplicity]

Great mod you got here

Is there a chance that the distance it loses focus be changed from 100m to 200m maybe? - Reason for this is that my rather large ships take forever to turn, and even tho I get to within 40m of my space station I building by the time I do delta V and orientation that distance has gone back out to over 80m.

Then when I activate the docking mode and do rotate command that nine times out of ten goes out to over the 100m cutoff

My main problem is the design of the lifters, where I can only put 2 sets of RCS thrusters at the top and bottom of the main part of the lifter as the parts for the station go under that and I cannot really put RCS on those as they would interfere with the RCS on the core of the station. - having this design means that the ships etc take a lot longer to do things

Edited May 8, 2013 by Simplicity

[Michael Kim]

Great mod you got here

Is there a chance that the distance it loses focus be changed from 100m to 200m maybe? - Reason for this is that my rather large ships take forever to turn, and even tho I get to within 40m of my space station I building by the time I do delta V and orientation that distance has gone back out to over 80m.

Then when I activate the docking mode and do rotate command that nine times out of ten goes out to over the 100m cutoff

Well I'm not sure why I had that 100m limit at first... It's annoying sometimes. I'll remove that limit in the next release, so as long as your target vessel is loaded into the game, you can use Docking Assistance

[Garoad]

Removing the 100m limit and adding some (any) kind of strut reinforcement is worthy of a new release all on its own.

[Michael Kim]

Removing the 100m limit and adding some (any) kind of strut reinforcement is worthy of a new release all on its own.

Yeah but I'm half way on the ASAS system now. I think I'll finish that first.

And removing the 100m limit just requires changing 1 line of code really

[Simplicity]

Well I'm not sure why I had that 100m limit at first... It's annoying sometimes. I'll remove that limit in the next release, so as long as your target vessel is loaded into the game, you can use Docking Assistance

Thank you , my Kerbals will much appreciate it, there was nearly two nasty accidents last night when trying to dock, the ships very nearly collided with the station when they were doing their orientation etc due to being so close.. - even Jeb wasn't too happy about this occurring and he doesn't usually mind these near misses

[Simplicity]

Suggestion:

Is there any chance of you coming up with different sizes of the ring arrangement please?

I use Fusteks Common Berthing Mechanisms (they seem to dock better than the vanilla ones) and having your RCS rings in the sizes he uses would be great

Edited May 8, 2013 by Simplicity
changed post :)

[Simplicity]

Hmm, I may have found a bug, or is it a feature

When in automatic docking mode, once the ships/station have lined up it automatically switches to docking camera whether I have it marked or not, and nothing I try gets me out of it, I have to wait until the ships/station are docked, go out to space center and then back in to be able to get an external view again..

Edited May 8, 2013 by Simplicity

[Simplicity]

Question:

Why does the target vessel have to be rotated, couldn't the vehicle that's doing the docking position itself in the right position??

Reason for asking, Kerban Dragon VII Space station is no more due to a massive explosion when the rocket with the next part collided with it while in rotation stage of docking..

I started rotation stage at around 120m and watched as the target started trying to aline itself with the rocket carrying the new part, it kind of looked like the RCS was over compensating.. - then the rocket started turning for some reason to match the turning station, and as I watched in disbelief they moved closer and closer together all the time trying to line themselves up until BOOM...

[Michael Kim]

Suggestion:

Is there any chance of you coming up with different sizes of the ring arrangement please?

I use Fusteks Common Berthing Mechanisms (they seem to dock better than the vanilla ones) and having your RCS rings in the sizes he uses would be great

Well I'm not sure how many people are using those large docking ports so I don't think I'll make larger ones, sorry. Also, for now all docking cameras/targets work on the vanilla 1m size so that everything's perfectly lined up.

If you want docking assistance on larger ports, you can either install the docking cameras and targets on the side, or just put the part with both of them behind (your sight will be blocked but functionality will still be good).

Hmm, I may have found a bug, or is it a feature

When in automatic docking mode, once the ships/station have lined up it automatically switches to docking camera whether I have it marked or not, and nothing I try gets me out of it, I have to wait until the ships/station are docked, go out to space center and then back in to be able to get an external view again..

Here is a screenie of what I mean..

That's indeed intended for it feels real (or maybe I'm just stupid here?)

[Michael Kim]

Question:

Why does the target vessel have to be rotated, couldn't the vehicle that's doing the docking position itself in the right position??

Reason for asking, Kerban Dragon VII Space station is no more due to a massive explosion when the rocket with the next part collided with it while in rotation stage of docking..

I started rotation stage at around 120m and watched as the target started trying to aline itself with the rocket carrying the new part, it kind of looked like the RCS was over compensating.. - then the rocket started turning for some reason to match the turning station, and as I watched in disbelief they moved closer and closer together all the time trying to line themselves up until BOOM...

You don't need to rotate the target of course. It's not really an option for big things like space stations

[Garoad]

Oh man, those common berthing mechanism docks are great, I use them too - but I understand not making so many different sizes. All the different size parts really can clutter up our menus. What you might be able to do is add the individual parts (don't forget the radial computer part) to the sides of the CBM docks (make sure the angle is right!) and use the subassembly save/loader mod to grab the whole assembly when you need it. You might need to change the CBM cfg file to allow for surface/radial attachment though, I don't think the CMB parts have that enabled by default. I had a thread with the change needed somewhere in the forums.

Regarding the forced docking camera (despite having unselected docking camera) when you get very close, I'm not a 100% fan either, IMO it should be up to the user to decide what the view should be.

I think Simplicity might just be unaware of the ability to disable the "rotate target" in the settings. Make sure you DE-select "rotate target" next time (and might want to hit F5 for a quicksave first too.)

Edited May 8, 2013 by Garoad

[Simplicity]

Thanks guys, much appreciated - I always used the rotate option cause that's what the initial video I watched said to do - will try it with not selecting that..

No probs regards the larger docking things, I have used a small empty tank the size I want just above the docking port and have mounted the 2 things on either side of that (have still yet top test it, but it should work

EDIT/UPDATE:

Well I don't think this mod likes me at all, no matter what I do I cannot seem to get it working properly..

Either it's a mod I have installed that is interfering with it, or my ships are just too big or I have RCS in the wrong place. - (I am thinking along the lines that cause the ships are sooo big (the smallest I have tried with is around 190 tons) the mod is telling the rcs to do something too late cause the ships take so long to turn etc, which causes things to go screwy)

My reasoning behind this is because watching carefully, when it is trying to line up etc, it is always overshooting where it was heading to before the RCS kicks in and tries to correct.. (IE: the speed of the ships closing doesn't get back down to 0 before the 2 ships are lined up which causes it to overshoot.

Hope all that makes sense - anyway here is a screenie of the mods I have installed.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Simplicity