Small launcher, Long Distance probe

[tavert]

Going lighter can get you almost all of the way to orbit with just the jet. Here's an example I did for a different challenge a couple months ago, I think it was even my first post: http://imgur.com/a/uGXCu

That had a separate tiny stage to circularize so that my Mun lander was counted as "payload" just for the rules of that old challenge. With the SRB required for this challenge, the mass budget is pretty tight if you're going to put something manned on top. You can get a slightly lighter lander, almost as capable, if you go for the small radial Rockomax engines and a drop tank design, as shown here: http://imgur.com/a/kQK17#0

[occar]

That's what's killing you. If the weight is too much for lifting at all.

Did you try leaving the extra fuel on board and just allowing it to burn off until you could liftoff (this would let you take off with max fuel that you can lift)? Or did the extra fuselage weight itself cause the issue? Once you're getting aerodynamic lift off the control surfaces (even just rocket fins), the weight is less of an issue.

[Jack wooster]

There are some really great efforts here, and the performance some of you get from the jet, looking at you Tavert, is brilliant. My Duna probe landed safely but Jeb is still on his way to Laythe.

[planetx]

That's what's killing you. If the weight is too much for lifting at all.

Did you try leaving the extra fuel on board and just allowing it to burn off until you could liftoff (this would let you take off with max fuel that you can lift)? Or did the extra fuselage weight itself cause the issue? Once you're getting aerodynamic lift off the control surfaces (even just rocket fins), the weight is less of an issue.

I finished the mission with 200 m/s delta-v, so if I had burned off that delta-v before launch somehow I could have had a much better jet engine flight. When I saw the problem I was having, I attempted to re-design the craft as a spaceplane hybrid, where I would decouple all the wings, intakes, and the jet engine going into stage 2 srb. I kept having an issue of not enough wing lift as the atmo thinned out...probably due to bad plane design more than anything.

I knew I wanted to do a manned lander, and my initial landers were far smaller but lacked the dV to return from Mun. Those flights I did get to 1,700 m/s with the jet engine, and ended up with an apoapsis of nearly 600km. But as soon as I put in that final tiny tank to get enough dV for Mun return, well, you saw the result.

I had thought about going with an ion-engine lander, but I started running into the same problem once I got enough ion engines and solar panels going.

All-in-all I'm pretty pleased with my result, but I can't wait to see better ones.

[tavert]

Okay sadly the delta-V maps lie, it took 1500 m/s to capture in Dres orbit which is almost twice what I was expecting. The takeoff took about 130 m/s less than the map indicated, but I was still a fair bit short of being able to get back to Kerbin, much less be able to do a powered landing when I got there since I specifically chose not to bring a parachute. I may try the landing again, this time going straight from a grazing hyperbolic trajectory into a landing instead of capturing into low Dres orbit, but I don't think it'll save me enough to make it back home.

[Jack wooster]

Got a Rover onto Laythe, I used chemical rockets as I am too impatient to use Ion drives, I mean honestly it takes hours, I'd go down the pub get back and the engines would still be firing, and physics warp seems to mess up the fuel consumption.

I would love to do a Laythe sample return, or Manned return, even if that takes two launches of the cut price system.