[0.20] Ioncross Crew Support Plugin ([0.22] dev build)

[Mulbin]

Ooooh, I like the idea of cabin temp.

Going to do a bit of work on my radial O2 tanks tonight, been sidetracked by real life. I'll focus on radials first as the recoloured stackables look very nice.

Another question - how well does this mod work alongside one of my other favourite mods, Ampyear power management? Do kerbals die when main power runs out? Or will it recognise reserve power?... if not can it easily be set up to recognise the "reserve power" resource if ampyear is installed?

[Railgunner2160]

Could use a little help, I've installed the mod according to the instruction on the front page, and the parts show up and I can use them, however the capsules do not show any of the menus or use the life support either...

Any ideas???

[Swifty]

Railgunner do you have other mods with plugins working? If you don't it and are running windows 7 it could be windows stopping ksp accessing the dell

[Railgunner2160]

Mods like Kethane, KAS, Firespitter, and B9 aerospace are working, not sure why this isn't though...

I did hear something over in the B9 thread that something about one of the plugins it comes with isn't playing nice with the ModuleManager plugin......

[yongedevil]

Could use a little help, I've installed the mod according to the instruction on the front page, and the parts show up and I can use them, however the capsules do not show any of the menus or use the life support either...

Any ideas???

If you manually added the module to the part.cfg files then that's my fault as I forgot to update the instructions on the front page from IonModuleLifeSupport to IonModuleCrewSupport; that's updated now. If you didn't then there may be a problem with ModuleManager as you said. I'd suggest trying to manually add the crew support module to one of the pods and seeing if that works. Then we'll at least know if the problem is ModuleManager or IoncrossCrewSupport.

[toril]

Mods like Kethane, KAS, Firespitter, and B9 aerospace are working, not sure why this isn't though...

I did hear something over in the B9 thread that something about one of the plugins it comes with isn't playing nice with the ModuleManager plugin......

exsurgent engineering dll conflicts badly with module manager none of the mm edits work with it loaded, also the exsurgent dll is rendered inactive so the sabre engines in the b9 mod wont actually produce thrust, they just sit there and suck resources

Edited June 2, 2013 by toril

[khyron42]

I ran into the same problem of not having any ioncross menus on stock craft, with B9, Ioncross, and deadly reentry mods installed. Deleted the Exsurgent Engineering folder from GameData, retested, and can confirm that Ioncross started working after that.

[Kethevin]

Is there a trick to adding modules to the ModuleManager_Squad file? Stock items work fine but I cannot add other parts from mods. I tried setting up a new .cfg and I have the same issue. If I enter the cupola for instance, everything works fine; when I enter any of the H.O.M.E. series, it doesn't work. I've tried doing the @PART[x] with the name of the modded items within it's .cfg file as well as using the name of it's folder. Both were equally unsuccessful.

Thanks. :-)

I should note, if I edit the parts .cfg file directly, it works great. I'm just hoping I can put it all in one easy to manage file like is done with the stock components.

EDIT: Ignore that, I'm an idiot. It's working now. The parts name I was using had spaces in them, so I replaced the spaces with an underscore in both that part's .cfg and the .cfg I was creating and it works.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Kethevin

[Frostiken]

Share your code.

[Camacha]

The AC? Even if a pod was heated evenly to 700*, nothing describable as "AC" would cool it fast enough to be relevant. At those temps, in atmosphere, the most effective cooling will be purely passive, ie into the surrounding air via convection/radiation. The SR-71 had systems for cooling metal in reentry-like conditions because it lived in those conditions for hours. (in short, its fuel absorbed the heat and was burnt, sending the heat out the tailpipe). Space capsules need only survive a couple minutes. The air inside doesn't have time to heat before the reentry is over and entire capsule is cooling down.

As for getting close to the sun, continuous 700* is a problem. But the answer is gold foil. 0.0001mm of gold or silver will passively hold off even the most intense sunlight. The side of the craft facing away from the sun also radiates heat out into space. Between the protection on one side and passive cooling on the other, active systems are not essential. Just look at the gold used on the james webb telescope to see what I mean.

This is exactly what I was getting at

[Sir Nahme]

Are there any plans for additional co2 tanks?

[yongedevil]

Another question - how well does this mod work alongside one of my other favourite mods, Ampyear power management? Do kerbals die when main power runs out? Or will it recognise reserve power?... if not can it easily be set up to recognise the "reserve power" resource if ampyear is installed?

I've taken a look at the Ampyear mod and reserve power will not be recognized. Also, it is not possible to setup the mod to use an alternate resource if the primary is not available through the config file, but it is possible to add a pod generator to convert the alternate resource into the primary.

I should add though that kerbals will not die from lack of electric charge anymore, their command pods just stop working.

I've also look into modelling temperature a bit more and it seams like handling it properly would be quite involved. As others have pointed out in a vacuum to actually get rid of it requires radiators or venting coolant gas. It's not just a question of using electrical power to run an air conditioner to move the heat around.

To properly model heat you'd have to take into consideration how much heat is produced by the ship and its systems, how much heat it is absorbing from the sun, how much heat is being dissipated through radiation, and how much is carried away by venting gasses such as engines and RCS thrusters. To manage it you'd need extra parts like radiators and solar shades as well as possibly resources and generators to provide heat and cooling as well.

And most heat management would probably handled by static systems consisting of solar shades and radiators. It adds a bit to the craft design but not much to be managed during the actual mission.

I really do like the idea of it though. It would add a little bit of immersion to be able to monitor your cabin temperature. It just doesn't seam like enough of a gain for the work right now.

[Mulbin]

Ahh that's fine then, you can just transfer reserve to main as needed with ampyear!

On another note, made some progress with the initial re-texture of my radial tanks... then hit a wall. Seems the textures aren't showing up in .22 Will do some research to find out what the problem is. Should have some custom radials you are free to use soon though if you like, if not I'll just publish them for use for anyone who wants to edit the configs for themselves.

New colours are much more in keeping with vanilla KSP.

[Mulbin]

Sorted... was to do with the new directory and the way config files link to textures.

Still WIP but you get the idea... colours toned down alot from the previous versions. I'll get them polished and send them across should you want to use them.

[Laphtiya]

Hi all,

Need a little help here with this, how much battery power should I take with me in order to survive a night on the Mun? My poor Kermins died rather quick, what would you recommend? Three? Four of the larger battery packs? (I'm at work so I don't know the part name but it is the 400 capacity battery).

Thanks in advance!

[Mulbin]

Hi all,

Need a little help here with this, how much battery power should I take with me in order to survive a night on the Mun? My poor Kermins died rather quick, what would you recommend? Three? Four of the larger battery packs? (I'm at work so I don't know the part name but it is the 400 capacity battery).

Thanks in advance!

Thats a good question... I'm going to be doing a similar mission soon - micromanaging a full Munar day/night with O2 and power. Do you use the Ampyear mod? might be useful to do test runs on kerbin and monitor power usage.

[Mulbin]

Ok... pretty much got my tiny and small tanks sorted bar a little tweaking. As suggested by Yongedevil these are 50 and 150 capacity tanks that can be used alone for Mun / Minimus missions or stacked for longer trips. Will polish my CO2 - O2 Converter next then move onto my stacks. I also have a water tank and will add a food container for anyone who wants to manually add extra resources.

Will hopefully have something to send over to you (Yongedevil) this week for consideration!

[Laphtiya]

Thats a good question... I'm going to be doing a similar mission soon - micromanaging a full Munar day/night with O2 and power. Do you use the Ampyear mod? might be useful to do test runs on kerbin and monitor power usage.

The only mods I use are IonCross, KWRocketry, FAR, Crew manifest and ISA Map.

My rocket is based heavily on your Munbug setup (its awesome btw) just using FAR parts for more lift on the first stages. When the LM and CMD are together there is more than enough power to survive being blocked out of the sun, however when the LM lands I have time to plant a flag then hurry my backside back into LM to blast off before the sun goes down or I'll not make it. It's an great challenge but I have the crew manifest and perma death enabled to I want to save as many as I can.

[Mulbin]

Ok I have a problem with mod compatibility...

I use Ioncross and Remotetech, both of which use module manager. Copying the ioncross modulemanager file over the remotetech works fine... both mods work fine.

Here is the problem - For me there is far too much O2 in the pods in Ioncross (weeks of O2 in fact) which makes the mod pointless for Mun missions... which I mostly play. So I generally alter the amounts of O2 for each pod in ModuleManager_Squad.cfg

However if I make even the tiniest change to ModuleManager_Squad.cfg, it kills part of the remotetech mod - the part that adds remotetech capability to stock probes and antenna.

Any Idea why this happens? Is there a work around? And any chance of looking at giving pods much less O2?.. at present the 50 and 150 hour tanks I'm working on are completely useless when the pod has 300. I generally set a pod to have just an emergency backup of 10 hours at most - if you are worried that it will limit o2 for long trips then just put a bit more in the large tanks.

[yongedevil]

Hi all,

Need a little help here with this, how much battery power should I take with me in order to survive a night on the Mun? My poor Kermins died rather quick, what would you recommend? Three? Four of the larger battery packs? (I'm at work so I don't know the part name but it is the 400 capacity battery).

Thanks in advance!

I think 2. If you put the rocket on the pad and right click the crewed parts you should see a reading on how much power they're consuming. I think the default rate is 10/h + 5/h * crew capacity, and it looks like the Munbug has two cupola pods so that is 30/h. Form the wiki, Mun has a rotational period of about 40h. At 30/h, 400 units of electric charge will last about 13h. Two should therefore get you through 20h of darkness with a comfortable margin, assuming nothing else is draining power.

Ok I have a problem with mod compatibility...

I use Ioncross and Remotetech, both of which use module manager. Copying the ioncross modulemanager file over the remotetech works fine... both mods work fine.

Here is the problem - For me there is far too much O2 in the pods in Ioncross (weeks of O2 in fact) which makes the mod pointless for Mun missions... which I mostly play. So I generally alter the amounts of O2 for each pod in ModuleManager_Squad.cfg

However if I make even the tiniest change to ModuleManager_Squad.cfg, it kills part of the remotetech mod - the part that adds remotetech capability to stock probes and antenna.

Any Idea why this happens? Is there a work around? And any chance of looking at giving pods much less O2?.. at present the 50 and 150 hour tanks I'm working on are completely useless when the pod has 300. I generally set a pod to have just an emergency backup of 10 hours at most - if you are worried that it will limit o2 for long trips then just put a bit more in the large tanks.

I'm using both mods as well and I'm not seeing any problems. Only guess is that somehow the text editor you're using is causing errors that stops ModuleManager. I don't see how though as I use Notepad++ like everyone else, but I really have no other idea. Is it just everything loaded after Ioncross (I think mods and parts are loaded alphabetically) that is breaking, just RemoteTech, or are the changes to Ioncross not taking effect either? What happens if you just edit the RemoteTech file?

The models look nice. They have about half the radius I'd thought they'd have though so that probably means my suggested capacities aren't proportionally correct, but that's something that can be worked out latter.

Edited June 3, 2013 by yongedevil

[Mulbin]

I'm using both mods as well and I'm not seeing any problems. Only guess is that somehow the text editor you're using is causing errors that stops ModuleManager. I don't see how though as I use Notepad++ like everyone else, but I really have no other idea. Is it just everything loaded after Ioncross (I think mods and parts are loaded alphabetically) that is breaking, just RemoteTech, or are the changes to Ioncross not taking effect either? What happens if you just edit the RemoteTech file?

The models look nice. They have about half the radius I'd thought they'd have though so that probably means my suggested capacities aren't proportionally correct, but that's something that can be worked out latter.

I've got it to work now... strangely it's not changing the O2 quantities that breaks it... it's altering the notes (10 days for 3 kerbals etc...) I'll just have to remember the notes don't match the figures if I tweak it again!

Re the part size - they can be resized quite easily or another "medium" radial can be added. Personally I like having very small quantities of O2 as an option as I like to manage O2 on apollo missions to the Mun. Hence my preference for only a tiny bit in the pod with the option to add loads for interplanetary travel or a cup full for that extra hour on minimus!... makes the mod relevant for short and long trips rather than just long.

Will make retexturing the radial converter and creating a radial intake my priorities this week.

[Mulbin]

I think 2. If you put the rocket on the pad and right click the crewed parts you should see a reading on how much power they're consuming. I think the default rate is 10/h + 5/h * crew capacity, and it looks like the Munbug has two cupola pods so that is 30/h. Form the wiki, Mun has a rotational period of about 40h. At 30/h, 400 units of electric charge will last about 13h. Two should therefore get you through 20h of darkness with a comfortable margin, assuming nothing else is draining power.

That sounds right for my Munbug VI lander... unless you turn the spotlight on! VI has plenty of room under the decent stage fairing to add batteries though... VII will be a bit more cramped as it will have ALSEP modules taking up the space.

Currently I'm working my way through a series of Apollo style missions using ioncross, ampyear, remote tec and chatterer (which now has loss of signal linked to remote tec)... just completed a perfect free return trajectory while trying out my O2 pods.... had 3 units left on reentry. will probably wait for a while to get to lunar eva in case yongedevil completes the eva part of the mod first

[Hyomoto]

Just to say, Mulbin, those models look excellent. I wasn't really sure about life support and such, but honestly I think I'd reconsider with your models. I really look forwards to seeing what these final products are going to look like. Also, the description of it actually being important, having time windows and such to do things, I think is great additional challenge. I'll be watching this mod until your work becomes available Mulbin, but it's looking good.

[Tripod27]

Just to say, Mulbin, those models look excellent. I wasn't really sure about life support and such, but honestly I think I'd reconsider with your models. I really look forwards to seeing what these final products are going to look like. Also, the description of it actually being important, having time windows and such to do things, I think is great additional challenge. I'll be watching this mod until your work becomes available Mulbin, but it's looking good.

I'm in the same boat actually, mostly because I hate having parts that look exactly like other parts on my ship or in the menu.

A random suggestion though, is there a chance to add super pressurized versions of the tanks, that are 25% more efficient but explode if destroyed, causing your rocket to be pushed way off course (rotation-wise) and possibly tearing of nearby parts? Would kinda go with the "this thing will probably kill you" description a few of the stock parts have

Edited June 4, 2013 by Tripod27

[Fel]

Yeah, that didn't happen. I ran into a troublesome bug and had to restructure some of the code over the weekend. I'm just now going through killing some bugs with the new code. Because I've had a lot of delays already and I want to get a version out for Kerbal 0.20 the next version will be somewhat stripped down. So there won't be any EVA life support or resource consumption for inactive craft.

If everything goes well I hope to get the remaining major bugs wrapped up tonight and then be able to do final tweaks the in the next two days. So here's hoping I'll have something to show soon.

Just as a note, following ModuleManager's code makes it very easy to attach a module onto kerbalEVA

try {
	PartLoader.getPartInfoByName("kerbalEVA").partPrefab.AddModule(EVA);
} catch{}

*And I have no clue how the code can throw an exception yet still manage to properly add on a module... it just does.

As for the module, this "Magically Works" (Although destroying the GameObject when out of use would be good form).

if (RES_O2 == null) {
	RES_O2 = part.Resources["Oxygen"];
	if (RES_O2 != null) return;
//	RES_O2 = (PartResource) (new GameObject("EVAResources", typeof(PartResource))).GetComponent(typeof(PartResource));
	RES_O2 = gameObject.AddComponent<PartResource>();
	RES_O2.SetInfo(PartResourceLibrary.Instance.GetDefinition("Oxygen"));
	RES_O2.amount = 8;
	RES_O2.maxAmount = 8;
	part.Resources.list.Add(RES_O2);
}

Or just do it all in the MainMenu (Yay)

Part part = PartLoader.getPartInfoByName("kerbalEVA").partPrefab;
	PartResource RES_O2 = part.gameObject.AddComponent<PartResource>();
	RES_O2.SetInfo(PartResourceLibrary.Instance.resourceDefinitions["Oxygen"]);
	RES_O2.amount = 8;
	RES_O2.maxAmount = 8;
	part.Resources.list.Add(RES_O2);

	try {
		part.AddModule(EVA);
	} catch{}

	public void Update() {
		if (!FlightGlobals.ready) return;

		if (FlightGlobals.fetch.activeVessel.isEVA) {
			crew = FlightGlobals.fetch.activeVessel.rootPart.protoModuleCrew[0];
			oxygen = FlightGlobals.fetch.activeVessel.rootPart.Resources["Oxygen"].amount;
			if (!System.Object.Equals(crew.KerbalRef,null) && crew.KerbalRef.InPart != null) {
				oxygen = FlightGlobals.fetch.activeVessel.rootPart.Resources["Oxygen"].amount = crew.KerbalRef.InPart.RequestResource("Oxygen", 1);
				crew.KerbalRef.InPart = null;
			}
		}else if (crew != null && crew.KerbalRef.InPart != null) {
			crew.KerbalRef.InPart.RequestResource("Oxygen", -oxygen);
			crew = null;
		}
	}

And that uses some cleanness to get the precise part and use less code...

/me goes back to being bored and plays with the Kerbal Volcano XD

/me is still bored, still curing boredom :S

Edited June 4, 2013 by Fel