Planes on Mars?

[Kerbface]

Less or more effective than planes on Earth? I haven't had a chance to test Duna out in KSP. I wonder because the gravity is lower so less lift would be required, but the atmosphere is also very thin.

[jebbe]

xkcd has thought about just that - it's a great read:

http://what-if.xkcd.com/30/

Short answer: Yes, it's possible, but much harder than on Earth. You have to be very fast, with all the complications that brings.

Has anyone tried on Duna?

Edited May 5, 2013 by jebbe

[WestAir]

Thin atmosphere with extreme cold. I'm not sure how that would turn out. All that matters to a wing is pressure altitude when it comes to the coefficient of lift attributed by the atmosphere. If that pressure altitude translates to anything close to Earths 29.92 inches of barometric pressure at Earths sea level, you should be fine. The higher the pressure altitude (the less molecules per square inch) the less effective wings will become, and the LARGER your wings will have to be (OR faster) to have the same lift. But it's not an exact science due to all the different types of drag that comes with more speed or more weight.

In my (un)professional opinion, I'd personally say an airplane would be a lot less efficient on Mars, but I don't know how the weaker gravity and colder air will affect a wings ability to lift an aircraft.

[Czman007]

Has anyone tried on Duna?

I have, you have have a lot more lift than you need on Kerbin. The lower gravity helps some but not a lot.

[Pursuedtank]

Besides you can't use jets on Duna although I don't know what would happen on Mars

[Eric S]

To get around the lack of jets, I experimented with an electric prop-driven UAV on Duna. I was thinking of providing one for the colony/research station I was planning, as a way to better map out the area in the immediate vicinity of the colony. The UAV could get off the runway at less than 20 m/s on Kerbin, but had to hit about 100 m/s on Duna. I never did manage to land the UAV on Duna without enough damage to prevent it from taking off again (well, if there was a way to push it back on it's wheels, the one that faceplanted and then stood on its prop could probably take off).

[K^2]

Besides you can't use jets on Duna although I don't know what would happen on Mars

Same problem. No oxidizer in the air. In addition, the dust in atmo would FOD out any turbines pretty quick. But props would work. They just need to be very large and very rapidly rotating. A bit of an engineering challenge, but nothing impossible. To drive them, you'd either use electric motors or turbines driven by rocket engines. (Since these do not intake air, FOD wouldn't be an issue.)

I was actually considering building a prop mod that would let you design a craft for different kinds of atmosphere by combining different turbines with different props. I might still do that. Would make exploration of Duna way more fun.

[lobsterbark]

Actually, irl the plane would already be extremely light, to reduce the cost of bringing it to Mars. What is "sea level" air pressure on Mars, compared to earth.

[karolus10]

Main problem with Mars/Duna aircrafts are very low air density, so they will be supersonic crafts with glider like wings and maneuverability of oil tanker.

I wouldn't like to fly that thing...

Edited May 6, 2013 by karolus10

[andrewas]

Actually, irl the plane would already be extremely light, to reduce the cost of bringing it to Mars. What is "sea level" air pressure on Mars, compared to earth.

It varies by two orders of magnitude, from virtally nothing at the top of Olympus Mons to a little over 1% of Earth's sea level in the deep valleys.

[K^2]

Main problem with Mars/Duna aircrafts are very low air density, so they will be supersonic crafts with glider like wings and maneuverability of oil tanker.

I think, you'd have to design these things very differently. A long slender body with two pairs of glider-like wings - front and back. That will give you a significant moment about the roll and pitch axes letting you gain some of that maneuverability back.

But yeah, you'd still need to land that thing somehow? Maybe same way you'd take off, with JATO?

[Tommygun]

It might be easier to do it with power blimps.

Taking off and landing without even a dirt runway at high speeds with a small aircraft is going to be really hard.

[Cannon_Fodder]

http://marsairplane.larc.nasa.gov/

NASA is working on a plane to send to Mars. I want to see how well this thing flies. With Atmosphere so thin they planes will have to be light and fast. They seam to think it can work.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Cannon_Fodder