So whats the big plan for this game then Squad?

[nats]

Well after a few weeks of playing this game and really enjoying it I, and then waiting for the next patch which seems to be taking ages for some seats, map tabs and flags, I started wondering what is the big plan for this game? I mean no-one in their right mind works on a project without having at least a grande programme with deadlines and expected completion date established. I bought the alpha version with the expectation that at some point it will be finished, like many other I presume. It would be nice to know when I can expect to be playing the career at least, and the final iteration of the game. I think I have a right to know at least what the overall plan of attack is?? Dont you Squad?

So what is the established schedule for the games development, presuming you do have one other than the list of features to be incorporated? What IS the outline plan and plan for the final release? 2014 some time? Earlier? Later?

What about the introduction of the major elements of the career such as base management, training and resources?

It would put my mind at rest a bit if at least I knew where the project was headed in the longer term. Cheers.

Edited May 13, 2013 by nats

[Awaras]

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Planned_features

[bbwonder]

Cheers.

Are you 'nats' on the Frontier / Elite Dangerous forum too?

Oops... now I feel dumb.. just noticed your avatar.. :-|

It's Andrew Winter here - Elite stats dude, cool to see other Elite guys here.

Don't worry about KSP, they have a grand plan, but its just taking a while to get there.

[Grizzlol]

Having such interest in the game's development and future, I would suggest watching the developers weekly stream on Twitch TV. A lot of these things have been mentioned there. They are careful with promising specific things, especially release dates, but currently the plan is to be finished within about 12-18 months time. The career mode is their main focus right now, with the first iteration being released maybe after the next update. Resources were discussed in detail in the last few weekly videos.

[Commander Zoom]

I've been here since 0.8. I'm along for the ride, wherever it goes and however long it takes.

[nats]

Are you 'nats' on the Frontier / Elite Dangerous forum too?

Oops... now I feel dumb.. just noticed your avatar.. :-|

It's Andrew Winter here - Elite stats dude, cool to see other Elite guys here.

Don't worry about KSP, they have a grand plan, but its just taking a while to get there.

Ah yeah I remember you. Yes same Nats - those stats you did for Elite Dangerous were very useful Andrew. That Kickstarter was quite the ride! Looking forward to the game next year.

Anyway yes about KSP:

I know about the planned features list but what I am referring to is the overall plan/scheme/programme for the game development - Squad must have a rough schedule they are working to and I would like to be let in on it. If they are selling an alpha version of the game they should be prepared to open up to the people who are trusting them to get it finished, which I suppose are in essence their clients in a small way.

I am not demanding things and expecting stuff out of some weird 'assumption of entitlement' like some others do on here. It just would be just nice to know where we are heading and when the game is planned to be complete considering we are all 'along for the ride'.

I feel Squad need to start opening up to their community a lot more, ignoring the prats on here, and getting this whole shebang moving in the right direction, with us helping them complete their goals by providing the right encouragement. And if we are to do that it all starts by everyone knowing where we are heading and when (roughly) we will get there. And preferrably we could be more involved during the journey too.

Edited May 13, 2013 by nats

[Tw1]

I don't think they believe in deadlines. They work on something until it's ready.

I also get the impression the game has evolved, and may still do so, if they get ideas that would add stuff to the game.

(I'm hoping they continue to add features , like more science and planet geology, so you can do all the things real space programs (hope to) do.

But that's just my view.)

Edited May 13, 2013 by Tw1

[JonoRig]

I also get the feeling theyre a bit loathe to release estimates on their work, after recent issues... some people are getting fed up with things, or expecting other things, and unfortunately, it seems theyre the ones who can be loudest when it suits them (just look at the Expansion war that happened after a tiny comment made on a dev stream for an example :/)

[Viper_607]

Ah yeah I remember you. Yes same Nats - those stats you did for Elite Dangerous were very useful Andrew. That Kickstarter was quite the ride! Looking forward to the game next year.

Anyway yes about KSP:

I know about the planned features list but what I am referring to is the overall plan/scheme/programme for the game development - Squad must have a rough schedule they are working to and I would like to be let in on it. If they are selling an alpha version of the game they should be prepared to open up to the people who are trusting them to get it finished, which I suppose are in essence their clients in a small way.

I am not demanding things and expecting stuff out of some weird 'assumption of entitlement' like some others do on here. It just would be just nice to know where we are heading and when the game is planned to be complete considering we are all 'along for the ride'.

I feel Squad need to start opening up to their community a lot more, ignoring the prats on here, and getting this whole shebang moving in the right direction, with us helping them complete their goals by providing the right encouragement. And if we are to do that it all starts by everyone knowing where we are heading and when (roughly) we will get there. And preferrably we could be more involved during the journey too.

That planned features list is basically where the game is headed, and what they are planning to do. That list is updated as things change, and more fun stuff is added. I believe part of the reason why they don't create a "this is exactly what we'll do" document is that they don't know how things will work out, and what features they'll actually put in fully.

Rough estimate you ask? Soon

[Joe_Bender]

It would put my mind at rest a bit if at least I knew where the project was headed in the longer term. Cheers.

In other words, what is the End Game?

That is something I would like to know.

Is this intended to be a realistic space sim with little green men or just a 'feel good' game with a little math skillz thrown in?

[nats]

I don't think they believe in deadlines. They work on something until it's ready.

Everyone has to work to a deadline in business!!! Squad have a deadline, they have a final vision, and they must have a plan to get them there - you can be assured of that. They aren't thick.

[Dr. Muttonstache]

Everyone has to work to a deadline in business!!! Squad have a deadline, they have a final vision, and they must have a plan to get them there - you can be assured of that. They aren't thick.

We could say that Squad isn't EA where deadlines are the only thing that matters. Thats a start.

[Caelib]

We could say that Squad isn't EA where deadlines are the only thing that matters. Thats a start.

I'm glad somebody said it! As much as we all want the game to be finished, it is not being rushed out the door and we should all be thankful of that.

[Xing]

I think what NATS is saying is that they have to be very careful about how long they keep consumers waiting, after the steam boom, how many more customers are they going to attract?

[Malaugrym]

Everyone has to work to a deadline in business!!! Squad have a deadline, they have a final vision, and they must have a plan to get them there - you can be assured of that. They aren't thick.

No, actually, not everyone has to work a deadline. Not in the way you mean anyway. Simply put, the team is three(four?) people. They have a list of features they want to implement. Considering they mentioned that resources would be in the .20 update, then took it out, I would guess any time table they have is extremely loose. Squad will get there when they get there.

On the same note, what use is a date to you anyway? It isn't actionable information, no plans can be made around it. Even if they did release dates, they would get changed, rendering the announcement useless, obviously. Giving release dates to gamers is just one more thing the company gets yelled at for. When was the last game that met all milestones on schedule and had a stable release on the first mentioned date? Maybe Pong.

You receive no "rights" at time of purchase other than the ability to use the game in its current form. Squad owes you, me, and everyone else nothing beyond that. They don't even need to finish the game if development becomes untenable.

While I can grasp the concept behind wanting a release date, there is no actual benefit to getting one. If Squad came out and said "Version 1.0 is coming on Febtober 82nd" everyone would say "Oh neat" and move on. Then the date rolls around, 1.0 is delayed, there is a great bitching, and nothing was accomplished.

TL;DR

No point in a release date, its done when its done. We got what we paid for, Squad owes us nothing. Irrelevant questions.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Malaugrym

[HGGundamReviews]

Nats the one thing Squad has said is that are not releasing schedules or giving release dates. Updates come when their done. As such when a Update is done they will tell us that it will be out on X date. Usually a day or two before release.

[AlternNocturn]

Squad has internal deadlines and AFAIK they actually do set release dates within the company, but they stopped sharing with us when people kept getting mad at Squad for missing the date, whatever their reasoning is. Also, we used to have public experimentals, but people were getting pissy about that too when they realized they weren't as stable as the full release. In the beginning Squad gave us a lot, but the ungrateful ruined it for everyone.

[Tw1]

As stated, any deadline would be pretty arbitrary.

In some professions, they're critical, if machines need to be hired, or people are only available for a certain time, etc.

But not when they're designing and publishing themselves.

I'd love to not have deadlines, my design drawings are almost never perfect when it comes to presentation time. But uni works to a schedule, as a lot of stuff must fit within a semester, so meeting deadlines is important. (Unfortunately.)

BTW, please don't feel like we're bombarding you, lots of us just have strong opinions about this kind of thing. (And we're now used to waiting in suspense.)

Edited May 13, 2013 by Tw1

[Kerbface]

Everyone has to work to a deadline in business!!! Squad have a deadline, they have a final vision, and they must have a plan to get them there - you can be assured of that. They aren't thick.

No they don't. They can just do things. That's the advantage of not being under the control of executives. Freedom. They can just add whatever features at whatever rate they want for as long as they want. I'm not complaining. I think the game even in it's current state was well worth the $23 it cost me and I know there's still a lot more to go. What exactly that is I think I more or less trust them with. Lots of great art is made without deadlines.

[nats]

No they don't. They can just do things. That's the advantage of not being under the control of executives. Freedom. They can just add whatever features at whatever rate they want for as long as they want. I'm not complaining. I think the game even in it's current state was well worth the $23 it cost me and I know there's still a lot more to go. What exactly that is I think I more or less trust them with. Lots of great art is made without deadlines.

No they probably cant realistically. I think you are getting confused between creating 'art for arts sake' in your spare time as a hobby, and doing something to sell to people. Of course there is a third option of creating art for arts sake and not getting paid for it and dying of starvation (like some famous artists have done in the past to great acclaim once they were dead). Although I consider this game is a piece of art it is being created for sale as a commercial product. I am sure they cant afford to work on it for the rest of their lives (but I could be wrong). So if you are doing something for sale then that dictates that you need the money for something, and if you need the money for something, that dictates you have a deadline.

Also selling an alpha version is selling an incomplete product. And once you sell an incomplete product to someone you are saying to them 'I will finish it in a reasonable timeframe'. I am just asking what that timeframe is (roughly) and what the plan is to get there. Not unreasonable questions.

But its not like I will die or anything if I dont get told. I am happy playing the game, and happy with the value for money so far. I trust Squad are going to continue to develop the game and finish it eventually.

It just would be interesting to know these things. So for example I know whether to put the game down and stop playing it for a few months once I have visited a few planets to wait for an upcoming patch, or whether I should hold off doing something like building a massive spacestation because that feature is going to be patched soon into something a lot more almighty. A bit like the flags for example - I mean who is now going to go back around all the planets and do exactly what they have already done to put a load of flags around? Is there any point visiting Duna if I know by waiting a little bit I can plant a flag? That kind of thing. It's a problem I find with constant updates to games, you keep having to redo stuff you've already done. It would be nice to get an idea what parts to play in the game and what not to bother with for the moment. Or maybe I am just thinking too deeply about it?

Edited May 13, 2013 by nats

[Qumefox]

In other words, what is the End Game?

That is something I would like to know.

Is this intended to be a realistic space sim with little green men or just a 'feel good' game with a little math skillz thrown in?

The devs have stated repeatedly that it's the latter.. KSP is intended to be a game.. NOT a realistic simulator. If you want a realistic simulator, I suggest you give orbiter a try.

Selling an alpha version is selling an incomplete product. And once you sell an uncomplete product to someone to are saying to them 'I will finish it in a reasonable timeframe'.

I am just asking what that timeframe is.

Actually I personally think the progress progression for KSP is fine. Most other games you don't really see anything at all out of until the game hits beta, and thus, is mostly done except for bugfixes... So most people have no clue how long it takes to build a game.. They don't get much information about the process except the very tail end of it that they can see. Squad has gone the opposite route and has had the community involved from the beginning.. and since most people really have no clue how long it takes to develop a game, they get impatient thinking it should be done in a few months.. because that's what they've seen before with beta's etc.. and that's just not how it works.

And personally, even if they stopped development now, I can honestly say i've gotten my $18 (what it was when I got it) out of the game several times over.

Also, the only answer you'll get in regards to when it'd done, is that it'll be done when it's done. In the past we've gotten large updates every 2-3 months.. Squad has said they plan to shift to smaller, more frequent updates since they switched to GIT. Squad learned long ago giving people hard dates only causes problems. Just look how the expansion thing blew up over harvester thinking out loud about something far in the future during a livestream. This is pretty much what would happen every time Squad missed a deadline.. With the only other alternative being to release buggy/unfinished updates.. Neither of which scenarios end very well... Them not releasing hard dates is much easier on everyone than the alternatives.

KSP will be done when it's done. The fact that it's alpha software in development is plastered everywhere for all to see before you buy it.

[JSD]

Selling an alpha version is selling an incomplete product. And once you sell an uncomplete product to someone to are saying to them 'I will finish it in a reasonable timeframe'.

Straight from the Kerbal Space Program store;

* By ordering KSP now, you get the game in it's current state and all future updates.

It doesn't say there will be a finished version what so ever. So; all they are selling on the moment is a alpha version. That's the game you bought. If for what reason they ever decide to pull the plug.. To bad, but nothing that we could do about it. We did bought a alpha with the plan to become a full version someday. And that would be your answer. The "big" plan right now is to get it done someday. You followed the Streams a little bit before the forum darkness? They mentioned so many times before they sometimes don't even have a clue. I know they have the plans, the features, I also know they think about a year, year and a half right now. But even that can change down the road. Maybe six months from now they thought about some really new cool stuff that takes it up to two years. Stop worrying over a full-version and stuff like that. Just get exited about the updates their working on. Cause updates are the little steps forward to a full-release.

Edited May 13, 2013 by JSD

[nats]

I suppose this is a problem with buying an alpha/early access version. Probably going to have to make sure I dont do it ever again. I dont very much like the idea that Steam are selling incomplete games really, I dont think its a great deal for gamers. With this game if I had my time again I think I would probably have preferred to wait to get the completed final version. Knowing its going to be year or more away before I can play the final game - I am not sure I really will be around to see it if you know what I mean. A year is a long, long time. Well we'll see, I can enjoy what I have for a few more months probably - not sure after that though.

[itsme86]

I suppose this is a problem with buying an alpha/early access version. Probably going to have to make sure I dont do it ever again. I dont very much like the idea that Steam are selling incomplete games really, I dont think its a great deal for gamers. With this game if I had my time again I think I would probably have preferred to wait to get the completed final version. Knowing its going to be year or more away before I can play the final game - I am not sure I really will be around to see it if you know what I mean. A year is a long, long time. Well we'll see, I can enjoy what I have for a few more months probably - not sure after that though.

You seem to make a habit of it (i.e. Elite Dangerous references?) Personally, I paid for the game because it's worth what I paid in its current form. Paying a price for something that you don't think is currently worth that price is a risk in any area of life; don't think the lesson is constrained to gaming.

If $23 isn't a reasonable amount to pay for (according to you) months worth of game play, then eh, yeah.

P.S. Why does one of these "you owe us, Squad" threads have to crop up seemingly every week? There are countless of them on the forum. Do you really think that posting another one is going to solve anything?

[Qumefox]

I suppose this is a problem with buying an alpha/early access version. Probably going to have to make sure I dont do it ever again. I dont very much like the idea that Steam are selling incomplete games really, I dont think its a great deal for gamers. With this game if I had my time again I think I would probably have preferred to wait to get the completed final version. Knowing its going to be year or more away before I can play the final game - I am not sure I really will be around to see it if you know what I mean. A year is a long, long time. Well we'll see, I can enjoy what I have for a few more months probably - not sure after that though.

Oh come on now. Yes KSP is in alpha, but you come across like it's unplayable and there's nothing to do.... which is FAR from the truth no matter how you look at it.