View on parts clipping?

[WhiteWeasel]

I've finally got this game and now I notice that you could do this, for a lack of a better term, parts clipping is basically cramming (part) inside of (part). It may be from harmless getting more compact designs to game-breaking 5 fuel tanks in the space of 1 or 2. Is it considered cheating, or just part the game. And the extent of what is done depends too. I have a feeling it won't be 'fixed' because it's one of those things that, yeah it will prevent cheating, but it will screw with many other player contraptions too. I'm definitely not saying that it's got to go, and it doesn't really even break anything unless if the player tried, which in a game of personal objectives is on the player. but what is your view on it?

MAJOR EDIT: I did not mean the actual cheat. I thought it was fiddling with the configuration of a part until get it in an "impossible" placement like a fuel tank inside of another.

Other than volume I don't remember changing anything in the options.

Edited May 20, 2013 by WhiteWeasel

[Sir Nahme]

I love using it to store stuff inside of struts, who in their right mind sends empty space up into spaaaacccee

[Dasemay]

it's a debugging option it's meant to be there, so it's not going to be fixed. Also ksp is a single player game you can't cheat.

[Malaugrym]

Personally, I don't see how cheating is possible in a singleplayer game. That said, I play as if every part takes up the space of its model and cannot be combined with other parts.

[Sir Nahme]

That line always makes me laugh" It's a single player game, you can't cheat" sure you can, but you only cheat yourself so who cares?

[ouion]

hey how i open the cheat menu

[Sir Nahme]

alt-f12 or fn-alt-f12 depending on your platform

[Tex_NL]

I have no real problem with part clipping. To a certain extend that is. For example I would not clip batteries, RCS tanks and things like that into a fuel tank but I have no remorse clipping them into an empty fuselage section.

[The Jedi Master]

It can be aesthetically pleasing, so I don't really have a problem with it.

[paleorob]

I use it all the time - fit stuff inside struts is the main use. Useful to have as not all the models have completely unborked collision meshes.

[WhiteWeasel]

I figured as much. I guess the only reason you not do it is personal challenge/preference.

[Varyon]

It can be incredibly useful, and realistic if used to place small parts inside struts. And occasionally you get that weird attachment glitch where rockets won't stick to decouplers unless you attach them somewhere else first, so part clipping helps with that too.

[SecondGuessing]

I don't see any reason not to use it, the way the game's construction system works means many completely feasible and realistic designs are not possible without part clipping.

[Sorcie]

It can be incredibly useful, and realistic if used to place small parts inside struts. And occasionally you get that weird attachment glitch where rockets won't stick to decouplers unless you attach them somewhere else first, so part clipping helps with that too.

I have these issues so often, like most of my parts. Is there a thread or discussion on this topic somewhere for more info on this type of VAB behavior?

Been playing a month or so heavily, and haven't tried turning on clipping yet. I discovered how useful and fun tri-couplers could be while playing with spaceplanes and ram air. I was able to do this (in work) without turning on clipping, with a lot of patience. It has heavy clipping, but without turning anything on.

Feel like there's more to learn with VAB issues still.

Also my freakin mechjeb disappears in VAB constantly ((((((( Restart required. Grrr.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Sorcie

[WhiteWeasel]

"It's Ok, everyone uses it" is the vibe I'm getting with this thread. I have nothing to worry about then.

[Spatzimaus]

Generally, I don't clip parts. There are a few exceptions, as others have said: things inside struts/empty fuselage elements is the most common, but I also clip jet intakes all the time. The problem is that the stock intakes have an unrealistically horrible flow rate, so you need a half-dozen per engine if you want to fly at high altitude. Seriously, a 1.25m part (meaning it has an area of ~1.2m^2) has an effective intake area of 0.01? Ridiculous, unless the units aren't in m^2, in which case the number should be raised for gameplay reasons. And its intake storage value of 0.2 (presumably liters, given how the fuel system works) is also horrible. I'll likely just create/download a mod part that has a higher flow rate, to reduce the graphical headaches, but for now I clip them using girders.

There are a few other things I regularly place inside fuselage elements. The two most common are the avionics package for my spaceplanes (since I prefer using the Mk1 cockpit, which has its own nose cone) and the RTG. In both cases, what I'd really like is a thin 1.25m stack version of each, but until that happens I'll continue to put them inside my other components to reduce the ugliness.

But in most cases, the thing I use the debug noclip for most is just when the game won't allow me to connect something even though there's no reason for it to refuse. This happens a lot when you're using symmetry; I was putting objects on the ends of the wing of my spaceplane, and I could put both sides on individually, but when I tried to use the symmetry to put them on together it refused. Other times it's even stupider; I'd connect A (new part) to B (my core ship). I'd then attach C to A. But if I then pulled A off, and tried to put it back on, the game would refuse because somehow it thought C was now conflicting with B, even though it hadn't had a problem with them before.

Bottom line, I use clipping in cases where the game SHOULD have allowed you to do things that way in the first place. I don't use it for things like sticking an engine inside another engine, or putting a fuel tank inside another fuel tank, because those are giving you a clear advantage over the core game.

[NeoMorph]

There is multiple uses for using the debug noclip (getting round the radial mounting bug that doesn't let you validly attach tanks is my main use) but BEWARE.

There is one thing that plagues KSP and only seems to happen at the worst possible time and is linked to clipped parts... THE PHANTOM FORCE MENACE.

For those who don't know, the Phantom Force Menace is when your ship begins to turn for no apparent reason, whether in outer space or during liftoff. Two parts, crossing into each other confuses the physics engine enough that it goes bonkers. I've had ships fold themselves in two when I had a clipped ladder. I've had ships that when you put SAS on to stop a spin would burn out all their RCS fuel fighting this bug.

But the more... errr... energetic clipping events can lead to this...

So do go ahead and clip parts. It lets you make stupendous rockets and planes. But if it starts behaving wierd or blows up for no reason... then try to eliminate the clipped parts.

[Rhomphaia]

There is multiple uses for using the debug noclip (getting round the radial mounting bug that doesn't let you validly attach tanks is my main use) but BEWARE.

There is one thing that plagues KSP and only seems to happen at the worst possible time and is linked to clipped parts... THE PHANTOM FORCE MENACE.

For those who don't know, the Phantom Force Menace is when your ship begins to turn for no apparent reason, whether in outer space or during liftoff. Two parts, crossing into each other confuses the physics engine enough that it goes bonkers. I've had ships fold themselves in two when I had a clipped ladder. I've had ships that when you put SAS on to stop a spin would burn out all their RCS fuel fighting this bug.

But the more... errr... energetic clipping events can lead to this...

So do go ahead and clip parts. It lets you make stupendous rockets and planes. But if it starts behaving wierd or blows up for no reason... then try to eliminate the clipped parts.

Events like that can happen even without clipped parts, Most common cause is octagonal or cubic octagonal struts, and since cubic octagonals tend to be used as clipping enablers...

[CalculusWarrior]

I think of part clipping as the KSP staff taking a handsaw to some of the rocket parts to make them fit inside each other Since this seems like a very kerbal thing to do, I have no problem with it.

[katateochi]

I use part clipping a lot, mostly for aesthetics, but without turning it on in the debug menu. I don't know if that is the same thou or if you get a different kind of part clipping by "enabling" it. Many parts can be set in a clippy way without touching the debug menu and I exploit that plenty.

I think it enables you to make interesting/different shaped craft. Even if you use it to smush two tanks into each other, its not like you get a reduction in weight or drag, so its doesn't give you some 'magic' advantage. And all hell can break loose if you decouple a part that intersects another part, so it can't be used too recklessly.

[Sof]

I don't use it to cheat by stuffing things inside fuel tanks. I do use it to get around some unreasonable placement denying scenarios, and generally putting the little niggly bits where I want.

[WhiteWeasel]

Wait debug menu? I thought it was fiddling with the arrangement until you get them a place they shouldn't? I didn't know there wan an actual command.

[Eric S]

My general rule, which I only apply to myself, is no part clipping functional items inside other functional items. I'm fine with part clipping structural parts, but when it comes down to things like clipping engines inside fuel tanks, that pushes my suspension of disbelief just a little too far.

[Echostatic]

Clipping structural stuff into other structural stuff makes perfect sense to me. So you want a custom part welded together, why not?