Assisted glider lift from a jet plane.

[MR4Y]

Since I haven't been able to make efficient rocket designs to rescue Jebediah sutkc on Minmus, I decided to try tother things. Watching Scott Manley's videos using control panels and researching other things, I came up with the Phantom Glider:

All stock parts. After trying to make this thing take off from the runway and failing using various methods, I figured: "What if I make a plane that carries this up to the atmosphere or orbit limit and release it there? It has an Ion drive, a tank and enough solar panels to power the whole system."

Then I made the Eventide Star FJ (Fighter Jet):

This plane can easily climb up to the orbit and reach 1241 m/s. I then tried a series of flights with the glider attached to the plane, with and without MechJeb, without success. Keep in mind that the glider has no batteries or landing gear at this point.

Anyone has an idea how I do this? Or a way to launch the glider from the ground without using the heavy landing gear?

[diegzumillo]

Sorry, I don't understand exactly what do you want to do.

[hedzup456]

I think he wants to use the Eventide FJ as a carrier for the Phantom up high and then drop it, flying the Phantom back down. Thing SpaceShipOne/WhiteKnightOne but without spaceness.

Could be wrong.

[zarakon]

1. I may be wrong, but I don't think those square panels on your glider actually work as wings (no lift).

2. Landing gear doesn't actually have any weight in flight, so you don't need to worry about that.

3. When you say "without success", what does that actually mean? Did the combination of the two planes not fly well? Did the glider not fly well after being released from the plane? Was the glider non-responsive when you released it from the plane?

[MR4Y]

1. I may be wrong, but I don't think those square panels on your glider actually work as wings (no lift).

2. Landing gear doesn't actually have any weight in flight, so you don't need to worry about that.

3. When you say "without success", what does that actually mean? Did the combination of the two planes not fly well? Did the glider not fly well after being released from the plane? Was the glider non-responsive when you released it from the plane?

1- Well, I had to use those, as KSP stock doesn't have square shaped control surfaces.

2- They might not have any weight in flight, but they to have weight when landed, making impossible for the glider to take off using just one Ion engine.

3- They fly well...Till I have to release the glider from the plane. Then the glider plummets down spinning without any control. I even tried to fly both using Mechjeb 2.0, with no sucess for both. The biggest challenge is that you're controlling two flying objects once the glider is detached.

[diegzumillo]

Ah! I see now what you're trying to do. Thanks for clarifying, hedzupnumber.

The problem, as someone said already is that your glider has no lift. Those things look like wings but ksp doesn't see it like wings, that's why it falls like a potato sack. You can keep those if you like the way it looks, but you need to add something that ksp actually sees as wings. Go to the aerodynamics tab, in SPH, and add a couple of wings and then some controllers. It should work

[MR4Y]

Ah! I see now what you're trying to do. Thanks for clarifying, hedzupnumber.

The problem, as someone said already is that your glider has no lift. Those things look like wings but ksp doesn't see it like wings, that's why it falls like a potato sack. You can keep those if you like the way it looks, but you need to add something that ksp actually sees as wings. Go to the aerodynamics tab, in SPH, and add a couple of wings and then some controllers. It should work

It has controllers on the back, I'll take a picture of it being lifted with a new plane I made.

[diegzumillo]

I see. Those controllers provide a 0.5 lift each, and it's all concentrated on the rear side of the glider. Even if it's enough lift to support flight it won't be stable because they're too far from the center of mass.

[MR4Y]

I see. Those controllers provide a 0.5 lift each, and it's all concentrated on the rear side of the glider. Even if it's enough lift to support flight it won't be stable because they're too far from the center of mass.

Then what I do? I would use the normal wings winglets and stuff, but they're too big for the design I want and could end depriving the Ion drive from it's thrust.

[AnalogAddict]

Seems like I have an ion powered small probe like what you're looking at. I think I used the advanced canards and the winglets with control surfaces built in. Its basically one central long strut with those canards poking off it and solar panels attached to that.

Edit: Said plane

Edited May 21, 2013 by AnalogAddict
Added image related to content

[diegzumillo]

Have you tried all wings? Some look like smaller than that even, like the swept wing.

[Spacejoe35]

I made an X-15 like device, and I was having the same trouble you were. If you can, mount decouplers on the wingtips and then attach fuel tanks, engines, wheels, intakes and wings on decouplers, reenforce with struts and you can fly, and once up to altitude, just decouple Flypods (as I call them) and fly on. No vessel-switching or spin-outs as long as your glider thing is stable. But those 1x1 panels do not generate lift, if that's what you're looking for, use structural wings or canards. Good luck! Cheers! ~Spacejoe

[zarakon]

There are some small wings called "Tail Fins" that would fit just fine

It actually looks like your grid of panels is about the same size as a pair of the large delta wings though

[MR4Y]

Many failed attempts of doing the same thing using wing surfaces...

[bsalis]

Hmm, i don't see how it is a glider if it has an engine. Powered glider i suppose.

Personally I have done this in a more properish way. The glider works without needing to be piloted. In this pic, the tow craft is behind, chasing the glider.

[MR4Y]

I was able to make a new glider (0.06 TWR...Pretty much no thrust in there), that can take off and land on it's own, but the thing still plummets and rotates like crazy once separated from the plane that lifted it up to allmost orbital heights.

[bsalis]

If you design the glider correctly, and do some testing and tuning, it should right itself and glide in a big slow spiral.

[MR4Y]

If you design the glider correctly, and do some testing and tuning, it should right itself and glide in a big slow spiral.

The designs of gliders i have in my head are those designs that are essentially a wing with solar panels.

Here's my latest design. It can take off and land on it's own, but the TWR is aggravating: 0.06, XD: